Vehicle and WT pivots triggering Opportunity Fire

Discussion in 'LnLT Rule Questions' started by seagles, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. seagles

    seagles Member

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    I'm suffering from confusion imposed by playing too many different tactical systems...

    On its impulse, a non-turreted vehicle wishes to Fire on an enemy unit but must pivot the chassis to bring the target into its covered arc. Does each vertex pivot trigger potential Op Fire? Technically, because it's Firing and not Moving/Assault Moving, no MP's are being spent to accomplish this change of facing.

    On the other hand, if a WT with a covered arc pivots to change facing, it spends 1 MP per 2 vertices to do so whether it's Moving, Firing, or using Op Fire (per 1.7.1). This would seem to imply that any such pivoting could trigger enemy Op Fire. Yes?

    Thanks,
    Scott
     
  2. MacMarkus69

    MacMarkus69 Member

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    Hi Scott,

    A unit(s) expending MPs (either enter-
    ing a new hex, pivoting within a hex or
    unloading/loading passengers (16.0))
    can be subjected to OF attacks equaling
    the MP-cost of the movement [...]

    This part of '5.3 Opportunity Fire' should answer your question.

    Cheers
    Mac
     
  3. seagles

    seagles Member

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    Thanks, Mac. Right, and 1.7.1 is explicit about WT's spending MP's to pivot and then fire, with the only penalty being the +1 OFT mod -- that's clear.

    There is no equivalent statement regarding vehicles changing covered arc to Fire in an impulse. The rules address the possibility of Assault Movement/Fire, but that incurs additional OFT penalties. If a vehicle wants to remain in its hex, but change covered arc to fire, must it then declare Assault Movement, pivot by explicit MP expenditure (1 MP per vertex), and then fire, with total OFT penalties of +3 (+2 Assault Move, +1 OFT chassis pivot)?
     
  4. MacMarkus69

    MacMarkus69 Member

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    15.1 Vehicle Facing & Movement

    When moving, vehicles enter one of
    the two hexes on either side of the
    vertex to which the red arrow points.
    Vehicles can, however, pivot within
    their hex. The cost is one MP per ver-
    tex.


    15.1.1 Turrets

    A vehicle’s turret faces the vertex to
    which the weapon’s barrel points. It costs
    no MPs for turreted vehicles to change
    the facing of their turret.

    There is, however, an associated penalty
    on the Ordnance Firing Table (OFT).
     
  5. seagles

    seagles Member

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    Hey Mac,

    Yes, that bit about 1 MP per vertex is in there (15.1). However, it's also possible for the vehicle to pivot for an Op Fire shot, incurring a +1 OFT penalty but technically NOT spending any MP's as Op Fire is not an impulse action. Perhaps the intention is an implied expenditure of 1 MP per vertex whether the vehicle is taking an Op Fire shot or taking a Fire action on it's impulse.

    Which invites a further question -- assume Side A and Side B. Side A is moving a unit. Side B opts to take a vehicular ordnance Op Fire shot, pivoting one vertex (with one implied MP and +1 OFT mod to do so). In response, and presumably before the initial Op Fire shot can be resolved, another Side A vehicular unit deems to pivot and Op Fire on the implied MP expenditure of the Side B vehicle pivoting to Op Fire. This Side A pivot in turn triggers a different Side B vehicular unit to pivot to Op Fire upon that Side A pivoting unit, and on and on it goes.

    I realize this is an absurd chain I'm postulating, but the rules don't appear to clearly address this contingency. I'm sure I'm missing something here as this can't possibly be the intent. For context, I come to LnLT as an experienced ASL and ATS player. Both these systems clearly address this sort of thing and, no doubt, are contributing to my confusion in regards to LnLT's mode of resolution. Apologies for my obtuseness -- I'm a stickler for the little details. :)
     
  6. Barthheart

    Barthheart Moderator
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    Op fire is only allowed by the non-impulse side so you won't get the chain you describe.
    Yes, when a vehicle pivots to take a shot it spends MP to do so. So that makes it a target for Op Fire.
     
  7. seagles

    seagles Member

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    Barthheart,

    Ok, got it regarding the Crazy Chain. More questions, though. If a vehicle must spend MP's to pivot to take a shot, then it must declare Assault Move for that impulse with all attendant penalties for firing, right?

    S.
     
  8. MacMarkus69

    MacMarkus69 Member

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    Hi Scott,

    no need to apologize for riding on rule details ;-)

    I think anybody playing wargames tends to do that now and then...

    Not 100% sure about your last question.

    Mac
     
  9. Barthheart

    Barthheart Moderator
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    That's a good question. In all the years I've been playing, we've never used AM for a pivot shot.
    Not saying that's correct with the v5.0 rules as it might have been tightened up. I'll have to poke around a bit.
     
  10. seagles

    seagles Member

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    Thanks to all for your input so far. In the meantime, I'll probably just play vehicle pivots for shots (both as Fire and Op Fire) as an implicit expenditure of 1 MP per vertex that triggers a single Op Fire response, with the shot taken as +1 OFT mod for the pivot(s).

    Cheers,
    Scott
     
  11. MacMarkus69

    MacMarkus69 Member

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    That's how I will play it, too...
     
  12. TerryB

    TerryB Member

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    I've never played it with AM, either. Not saying it's correct. I've just applies the penaties for pivoting that are on the DFT/OFT tables.
     
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