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World At War 85 Clarification and Corrections Color

World At War 85 Clarification and Corrections Color v1.2 Rev25

David Heath

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David, a few more that I have caught that need clarification please and thank you:
Mil-4A Hound flying mode lacks green transport circle, hover has it, safe to assume that flying mode should be green rather than white background?

Czech Mi-24 Hind D counter has orange superior move and fire for HE, Nationality chart says it does not benefit from this, counter itself (obviously) and playing card reference says it does benefit. Safe to follow counter/playing card reference?

For future printings a couple of the self propelled artillery units color bands are over the unit art rather than the art being on top of the color.

Thank you and crew! Tons of quality in game.
 

Keith Tracton

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David, a few more that I have caught that need clarification please and thank you:
Mil-4A Hound flying mode lacks green transport circle, hover has it, safe to assume that flying mode should be green rather than white background?

Czech Mi-24 Hind D counter has orange superior move and fire for HE, Nationality chart says it does not benefit from this, counter itself (obviously) and playing card reference says it does benefit. Safe to follow counter/playing card reference?

For future printings, a couple of the self-propelled artillery units color bands are over the unit art rather than the art being on top of the color.

Thank you and crew! Tons of quality in game.

Hi Jonathan, glad you like it and thanks for the input!

1. Yes on the MI-4 Hound should be a transport on both sides

2. Yes, the National Unit table is in error, I will get that on the clarifications.

Can you be more specific about where you see the SPA color bands are at issue, please? :)
 
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Keith, thank you sir!

The SPA's with the color band over the unit art are from the Frankfurt expansion in memory serves, Russian, the lighter green/blue bands.

Further inquiry:
East German Hind D does not benefit from superior fire and move, but is the same cost points wise as the Czech Hind-D. 93 pts. East German Hinds supposed to have this capability as well? To be fair the East German Hind D counter, card, and play aid state they do not.

What is the benefit of superior fire and move on Helos? The rules and play aids state that helos no matter their attack color backgrounds can only move either 12 or less and fire or over 12 and not. EG they do not currently receive a bonus or penalty for having it/not having it.

Rapid Fire HE to attack heavily armored targets:
Base game module does not allow Soviet Hind-E's this luxury, but they in turn receive it in Frankfurt and Czech D's receive it on Second Wave. Should Soviet Hind-E's in the base game be able to do so given their points and firepowers are exactly the same? (And perhaps by extension East German D's as well if playing with the points scenario generator) Or does this reflect a purposeful change in their load outs between time lines/fronts? :)
 

Keith Tracton

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Hi Jonathan! I need some time to research your further inquiries above, but in the meantime could you get me a picture of what you mean on the counters? I would appreciate it, as I am looking at the counters and am having difficulty seeing what you mean. Thanks!
 

Keith Tracton

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Keith, thank you sir!

Further inquiry:
East German Hind D does not benefit from superior fire and move, but is the same cost points wise as the Czech Hind-D. 93 pts. East German Hinds supposed to have this capability as well? To be fair the East German Hind D counter, card, and play aid state they do not.

What is the benefit of superior fire and move on Helos? The rules and play aids state that helos no matter their attack color backgrounds can only move either 12 or less and fire or over 12 and not. EG they do not currently receive a bonus or penalty for having it/not having it.

Rapid Fire HE to attack heavily armored targets:
Base game module does not allow Soviet Hind-E's this luxury, but they in turn receive it in Frankfurt and Czech D's receive it on Second Wave. Should Soviet Hind-E's in the base game be able to do so given their points and firepowers are exactly the same? (And perhaps by extension East German D's as well if playing with the points scenario generator) Or does this reflect a purposeful change in their load outs between time lines/fronts? :)

For the HInd-D question above (para 1): Both the East German and Czech HIND-Ds should have Enhanced Move and FIre on their respective National Unit tables. I will get that into the clarifications ASAP.

For the Enhanced Move & Fire question above (para 2)- The benefit is they can move 12 hexes and not suffer any direct fire penalty. :) To be clear, ALL Flying helicopters with an AP or HE value on the Flying side have enhanced move and fire, it is an inherent function of being in Flying Mode. You may move 12 hexes and still fire the weapons available to you when Flying (see the Note at the very end of Core Rules page 47, 9.7.1, Flying). As a convenient reminder, it is on the Move & Fire Summary Fire Chart (PAC05, page 3 of 3), which I thought would be helpful. I will add clarifications as needed to the National Unit tables.

My apologies for any confusion that may arise as the color of the Flying HE value on the Attack helicopters was changed to orange because we thought we were going to need that, and the orange was not changed back to black when we reversed course and tried to go with black for all Flying Helicopters. Counter changes are major and we did not want to hold things up! The orange HE color on those units is an artifact and has no effect on the game, but that is why the Move & Fire table for Helicopters says AP or HE value of any color, which would be Black or Orange. Apologies for over-engineering that!

High ROF HE: Both Soviet HIND-Es, US AH-1 Cobras, and East German HIND-Ds were inadvertently omitted from the list of High ROF units in the base game's Module Rules. I will get that into the clarifications ASAP.

Note: When designing your own scenarios, you can always play with ammo load-outs for Pact Helos. Simply reduce the points value of any unit foregoing the HIGH ROF HE by 10%, to reflect not taking 23mm gun pods on their mission. :)
 

dwbennett

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In StG Scenario 3, Scenario Rules 1. states that "US Initiative: The Soviet 2/247th GMR has the Initiative."

I believe this is in error as this is supposed to be a US counterattack. My "House Rule" will be: US Initiative: Fox 2/11th ACR has the Initiative.

Side Note: I was assigned to A Co., 547th Engineer Btn. (Combat), 130th Engineer Brigade, stationed at Kelly Barracks, Darmstadt, WG, from 4/1970 to 2/1971. Our mission, amoung others, was to maintain communications across the Rhine River. While I was there we trained several times building a Class 60 pontoon bridge across the Rhine. Stopping traffic on the Rhine River for about 10-12 hours for us to "bridge the Rhine" was a big deal as you could hardly believe the pell-mell rush of traffic after the river was opened up again.

Also while I was there, my company pulled guard duty on the atomic demolition dump up near Wildflecken. While there several of us took the opportunity to go up and see the border "Iron Curtain" at several places near Tann. At one of the places we passed a 11th Cav track several hunderd meters from the border. And, yes, I have pictures of East Germany at the time.

Take care,
 

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Love the game. I loved the first edition of World at War, but this blows it out of the water (so far, can't wait to get the other Theatre modules!).

1) Support Weapon Destruction: So, I may be blind, but I haven't been able to find the rules section that describes what happens to a Support Weapon after its Infantry unit is destroyed. (I read Sections 10.5 and 10.7.1 thoroughly.) I understand that an Armor Support Weapon would be taken out with the carrying unit, but in the case of the Infantry Support Weapon, those can be transferred between units, which makes things somewhat unclear. In Scenario 01: Storming the Gap, there is only one infantry unit on the board, so it's pretty simple in that case. My gut says that the Support Weapon is destroyed. Is that correct?

2) Soviet/Pact Volley Fire: According to Section 10.6.10, Soviet Heavy Armor vehicles may receive a +1 to their FP dice when they are stacked with another Heavy Armor unit from the same nation. If one of the vehicles is marked OPS Complete, can the other vehicle use the Volley Fire bonus, or do you lose one of the vehicle's FP completely? I don't see the point in sacrificing an entire unit's FP for a gain of only one FP.

Thanks again for making an awesome game!
 
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Keith Tracton

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Love the game. I loved the first edition of World at War, but this blows it out of the water (so far, can't wait to get the other Theatre modules!).

1) Support Weapon Destruction: So, I may be blind, but I haven't been able to find the rules section that describes what happens to a Support Weapon after its Infantry unit is destroyed. (I read Sections 10.5 and 10.7.1 thoroughly.) I understand that an Armor Support Weapon would be taken out with the carrying unit, but in the case of the Infantry Support Weapon, those can be transferred between units, which makes things somewhat unclear. In Scenario 01: Storming the Gap, there is only one infantry unit on the board, so it's pretty simple in that case. My gut says that the Support Weapon is destroyed. Is that correct?

2) Soviet/Pact Volley Fire: According to Section 10.6.10, Soviet Heavy Armor vehicles may receive a +1 to their FP dice when they are stacked with another Heavy Armor unit from the same nation. If one of the vehicles is marked OPS Complete, can the other vehicle use the Volley Fire bonus, or do you lose one of the vehicle's FP completely? I don't see the point in sacrificing an entire unit's FP for a gain of only one FP.

Thanks again for making an awesome game!

So glad you are enjoying it! Short answers below:

1) When a unit is eliminated any Support Weapon attached to it is too, regardless if there is another unit in that hex.

2) Both units are Ops Complete after Volley Fire: the unit that fires, and the unit that fires WITH it to add it the bonus. The purpose? To crack really hard targets. When you are trying to fight versus Improved Positions. for example, the IP stops the first hit. So, even if you fire a Soviet T-80, say, at an armored target in an IP, the most you can score on one shot is not 3 hits (it rolls 3 dice for AP FP), but 2. Coupled with average armor and/or defensive bonuses, and that position is likely going to hold out for a while. But make your shot 4 dice instead and now you have a chance of disrupting or eliminating the unit in fewer attacks, in preparation maybe for an Assault.

Hope this helps!
 

Proudgeek159

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Thank you for the quick response, Keith.

So for question 2, the wording on Section 10.6.10 should be "...in a stack with another Heavy Armor vehicle of the same nation that is not marked Ops Complete."

Works for me. The other option would have been to allow an entire stack to fire, but that didn't seem to match the rest of the rules.
 

Keith Tracton

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Thank you for the quick response, Keith.

So for question 2, the wording on Section 10.6.10 should be "...in a stack with another Heavy Armor vehicle of the same nation that is not marked Ops Complete."

Works for me. The other option would have been to allow an entire stack to fire, but that didn't seem to match the rest of the rules.

Your wording is clearer, thanks. :)

Right, it would not match. So, similarly, even AA fire is one unit fires, others provide a modifier, but if you do either you are Ops Complete.
 

dwbennett

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Storm and Steel: Second Wave, Scenario 1: The Czech formation 1/67th MMR setup says "Enter Turn 2 on the north edge of the map." However, directly below the Scenario Rules states: "The Czech 1/67th MRR has the initiative on Turn 1."

Today I'm going with the Czech setup with the 1/12th TR having the initiative on Turn 1.

Take care,
 

Starman

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In StG Scenario 3, Scenario Rules 1. states that "US Initiative: The Soviet 2/247th GMR has the Initiative."

I believe this is in error as this is supposed to be a US counterattack. My "House Rule" will be: US Initiative: Fox 2/11th ACR has the Initiative.
@Keith Tracton someone else has asked about this on BGG , Joel Toppen no less , so an answer would be useful.
 

Keith Tracton

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Storm and Steel: Second Wave, Scenario 1: The Czech formation 1/67th MMR setup says "Enter Turn 2 on the north edge of the map." However, directly below the Scenario Rules states: "The Czech 1/67th MRR has the initiative on Turn 1."

Today I'm going with the Czech setup with the 1/12th TR having the initiative on Turn 1.

Take care,

You are correct. 1/12th TR has the Initiative.
 
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Either I'm missing something or LoS mechanics are intrinsically flawed "as written" in the cases where it's checked between units at different heights with an obstacle between them. "As written" it only makes sense when checking from an attacker at a higher position than the target, which will have the opposite effect when checked from the lower position...

e.g. Using the example given on page 56, LOS Figure 09, but shooting from the lower position, from 3 hexes away from the woods, according to the rule, the Blind Spot would be 3 hexes (the distance between the attacker and the blocking hex), starting immediately behind the blocking hex, meaning that the Russian tank on the hill would be in the Blind Spot, hence out of LoS, whereas if the LoS was checked from this unit (when he is the attacker), and since he is only two hexes away from the woods, it would create a 2 hex blind spot behind the woods and thus would have the tank 3 hexes behind the woods at 0 height in plain LoS.

Obviously we could use the reciprocity rule that states if one unit has LoS to it's target so it's target will have LoS to it, BUT this wording creates a obvious conundrum, and really needs to be revised so that the makes sense and can be applied without issues from either position, as Blind Spots work in a fundamentally opposite way when you are at a higher or lower position and closer or further apart from the blocking terrain. e.g. from the lower position the closer you are to the blocking terrain the closer the target needs to be to have a LoS to it, and the farther from the intervening, blocking terrain, it is the further beyond the blocking terrain it can have LoS to, meaning it actually works in the opposite way of the rules as written if I'm seeing things right, and thus it should read something like "(...) when the unit shooting occupies the lower position the blocking hex creates a Blind Spot along the LOS, starting X hexes behind the blocking hex equal to the distance from the attacker to the blocking hex." e.g. a shooting unit, at height 0, 1 hex away from an intervening Blocking Hex wouldn't be able to shoot at any target since the blind spot would start 1 hex behind blocking terrain, whereas a unit 3 hexes away from the same blocking terrain would have it's blind spot starting 3 hexes behind the blocking hex, hence would be able to shot at units 1 or 2 hexes behind the blocking terrain.

This would affect also the following mechanic (shooting between units where either is two or more levels higher than the blocking obstacle height). My solution would ADD/REMOVE 1/height differential to the Blind Spot distance, in the cases of units shooting from lower to higher positions and higher positions to lower respectively. e.g. a unit shooting from height 0, 3 hexes away from woods (height 1) at a target at height 3 would be able to trace LoS up to 3 hexes away from the woods, since the Blind Spot would only start 4 hexes away (3 from the distance from the shooter to the woods + 1 from the 2 height difference between the target unit height and the blocking hex height). In the opposite direction, a unit shooting from a Height of 3, 2 hexes from the intervening woods (height 1), would have a Blind Spot of 1 hex starting behind the woods (2 from the distance from the shooter to the blocking woods - 1 from the 2 height differential).

Is my reasoning sound or am I missing something?
 
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