Am I Understanding Hedges Correctly?

Discussion in 'LnLT Rule Questions & Clarifications' started by Ty Snouffer, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. Ty Snouffer

    Ty Snouffer Member

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    I'm having trouble applying the Hedges Notes from Heroes of Normandy during gameplay. Hear me out and let me know if I have it correct!

    Blocks LOS traced through or along the Hedge from the same level . . .

    So, right off the bat the table stakes are, at the same level, Hedges block LOS.

    Exception 1) Doesn't block LOS to a hex in which the hex forms a hexside

    This one seems to be the least descriptive of the three exceptions. I read it as the typical can see the target adjacent to it type of LOS. Like in this image with the German targeting the American (with that "treat all Bocage as Hedges" SSR). Ruling: Clear LOS
    [​IMG]

    Exception 2) when traced FROM a hex through a Hedge that forms one of the hex's side

    Seems to be the reverse of the #1; From the American hex through the Hedge that forms one of the American's hex's sides. Ruling: Clear LOS

    Exception 3) when the LOS is traced form [sic] the firing hex along a Hedge that connects the firing hex to the target hex.
    So as long as the Hedge spine directly connects the target and firing hexes, LOS is good.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Well, that is how I am reading it. Something feels wrong though. I suspect it is with #1 but can't figure it out.

    Are we basically saying that units adjacent to the hedge can see out but those not adjacent to the Hedge can't see in? Is there a defensive advantage to Hedges? I can't figure out what it is.

    Who can help clear this up for me?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Barthheart

    Barthheart Moderator
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    You have it right in all cases. And I think there is a typo in Exception #1
    It currently reads "Doesn't block LOS to a hex in which the hex forms a hexside."
    I think it should read "Doesn't block LOS to a hex in which the hedge forms a hexside."
    Subtle but important.

    The only defensive bonus of a hedge, other than blocking line of sight when not adjacent is it negates the moving target modifier for direct fire that crosses the hedge hexside.
     
  3. Ty Snouffer

    Ty Snouffer Member

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    Thanks for the response.

    "is it negates the moving target modifier for direct fire that crosses the hedge hexside."

    Hmmm . . . that is nowhere in the Heroes of Normandy TEC. Are Hedges different between games perhaps and you're looking at another game than me?
     
  4. Barthheart

    Barthheart Moderator
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    I don't own the new version but I got that statement from the TEC in the WWII demo package. It's the 3rd last sentence in the notes for Hedges.

    Lock 'n Load Tactical WW2 Demo v4.jpg
     
  5. Ty Snouffer

    Ty Snouffer Member

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    Ugh, haven't had my coffee yet. My mistake! You are correct. Thanks!

    After all this, is seems to me like the rules around Hedges could have been more simply stated. Something like "Hedges do not block LOS traced across a Hedge hexside when the firer or the target is adjacent to that Hedge hexside. Otherwise, LOS is blocked." May not cover everything but it is a start.

    Ok, back to the great gameplay!
     
  6. Barthheart

    Barthheart Moderator
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    Glad I could help.
    Have fun, and stomp Kev. :)
     
  7. Ty Snouffer

    Ty Snouffer Member

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    "Have fun, and stomp Kev. :)"

    Gladly.
     
  8. Kevin Sharp

    Kevin Sharp Member

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    You are both very cute.
    So adjacency confers viability. Cool then we had a clean shot and your are doomed.
    Just saying. If you wanna play again after this and swap sides, I can show you some dirty tricks....on the board.
     
  9. Ty Snouffer

    Ty Snouffer Member

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    Yeah, I definitely want to finish our game and give it another go. Hallmark of a good game to me is one that has you wanting to play again immediately to try it a different way. I even have some new ideas for the Germans.
     
  10. Barthheart

    Barthheart Moderator
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    Let me know when you are playing again and I'll try to plan to stay longer.
    Ty, I'll even give you pointers when Kev makes a mistake. ;)
     
  11. Speeder_24

    Speeder_24 Member

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    In the first example, would either the Germans or the Americans be able to see each other if the Americans were in hex D4, assuming it was clear? Also, Ty says "Are we basically saying that units adjacent to the hedge can see out but those not adjacent to the Hedge can't see in?" and Barthheart says "yes" but I thought in all cases that if you can see them, they can see you?
     
  12. Barthheart

    Barthheart Moderator
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    If the Americans were in D4 the Line of Sight (LoS) would be blocked for both. One of the units must be right up against the hedge/bocage/wall hexside for there to be a clear LoS between the two.

    I never said "yes" to that statement... at least I can't see that I did.
    LoS is always reciprocal. If LoS is clear from my hex to yours, then LoS is clear from your hex to mine.
     
  13. Speeder_24

    Speeder_24 Member

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    Okay cool, thanks Ty, I misinterpreted your answer to him then.

    Could you explain please why in the last example the LOS is blocked?
     
  14. Barthheart

    Barthheart Moderator
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    I'm Barthheart or Vance. :)

    When sighting along a hexspine that is a hedge/bocage/wall there is only a clear LoS if both the firing hex and the target hex are joined by the hexspine.
    So in his 3rd picture:
    H5 and I3 are both touching/joined by the hexspine hedge (H4-I4) so the LoS. is clear.
    H5 and J2 are not both touching/joined by the hexspine hedge (H4-I4) so the LoS is blocked.
     
  15. Speeder_24

    Speeder_24 Member

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    Excellent, that makes perfect sense now. Thank you very much!!
     
  16. Jeff Lewis

    Jeff Lewis Designer

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    FYI: The image example has Bocage not Hedges.
     
  17. Ty Snouffer

    Ty Snouffer Member

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    Good point. To be clear, in the scenario I was playing hedgerows were treat as hedges. Heck, I can't remember what a Hedge looks like in HoN.
     
  18. Barthheart

    Barthheart Moderator
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    In your original post, the first two pics show hedgerows(bocage), in the third pic hexes H2-G2-H3-G3 all have hedges as hex sides and H4-I4-H5-I5 and J5-K4 are hedgerows.
     

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