Any way to make patches compatible with Older version?

Discussion in 'Command Ops Series' started by Noxos, May 27, 2015.

  1. Noxos

    Noxos Member

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    Or is this simply not possible? If not possible, any chance I can get a discount on the "Commander Pack"?
     
  2. Daz

    Daz Member

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  3. Noxos

    Noxos Member

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    Ok I'm confused, I thought HTTR (the original not the expansion) was "CO1" --- I'm referring here to the Matrix version of the bulge game.
     
  4. Noxos

    Noxos Member

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    Ok did some reading, I see that the version being sold here has some UI changes. Are the scenarios from the Matrix version import-eable into the base game that's free here?
     
  5. GoodGuy

    GoodGuy Member

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    Even though (map) file extensions, elements of the UI and engine features "under the hood" (supply-system, etc.) had been changed, it's possible to convert map files and then re-do the scenarios that are using the maps, technically. It's a cumbersome process and you'd miss out on the revised, merged and expanded maps created by the developer, though. I just used CO2's Map Editor to convert/import the HTTR Arnheim map. Took some 10-15 mins, but it worked. But since supply points are missing, the scenario file would have to be either revised (if it can be imported in the scenario editor), along with the proper adjustments, or even partially re-done. The new/current Estab core went through quite some changes, as well, so that my guess would be that the scenario would have to be re-built completely, to avoid crashes.

    So it's not like you just launch the game, load the "old" files and play along.

    This post might clarify things:
    http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/sitrep.1107/page-11#post-4722

    EDIT: Core engines of CO1 (HTTR, COTA, BFTB) are not supported anymore, afaik, so you won't be able to upgrade or patch them.
     
    #5 GoodGuy, May 27, 2015
    Last edited: May 27, 2015
  6. Daz

    Daz Member

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    In 2010, Panther Games rebranded their long running games series to Command Ops and released their latest title, Command Ops: Battles from the Bulge (BFTB). This is what is referred to as Command Ops 1 as far as I know.

    The game engine that preceded it was part of the Airborne Assault pack.
    I actually have the boxed version of the original Airborne Assault right in front of me now that I bought in 2002 I think. The receipt is to faded to read lol

    HTTR was an expansion of the AA title.
    Then remade and released for BFTB (Command Ops 1) as an expansion for that.

    In a nutshell the core engine is in continuous development, but the number of Historic Battles is limited. So to pay for that continuous development, on occasion, the old scenarios have to be updated then re-released, for a newer, better, user experience.

    So although the Core Engine is free to try out as a free trial, to see if you like the game. In order to finance further development, (and we do want further development), you have to put your hand in your pocket to purchase the updated scenario packs that will run with the new version.
     
  7. GoodGuy

    GoodGuy Member

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    With Red Devils over Arnheim (RDOA) being the first in the Airborne Assault series, HTTR was the first sequel (with more scenarios) covering the same sector (Arnheim), but also other/new sectors, so that it resembled a difference pretty similar to the difference between a Volkswagen beetle and say a Mercedes 190, as HTTR featured new functions, UI improvements and additions, generally speaking more luxury features. COTA was the 2nd sequel in the Airborne Assault series, covering Greece and introducing the new supply system, so it resembled a Mercedes 500 S (maybe with some gearbox problems ;), due to the CPU speeds available at the time and due to the supply system and other features/calculations stressing the CPU), hehe.

    CO2 is getting close to a Rolls-Royce now, but it's still on a Maybach level atm, I'd say. ;) :greedy:
     
    #7 GoodGuy, May 27, 2015
    Last edited: May 27, 2015
  8. Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor

    Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor Panther Games Designer

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    Novox,

    Welcome. The short answer is "No". As GoodGuy and Daz have said above you can import and convert CO1 maps and estabs but not scenarios. You cannot convert maps and estabs from prior to BFTB. There is no conversion code for these. The new Scenmaker will automatically clone - ie make aderived copy - from a CO2 stock scenario. So you do have to buy the Commander Pack 1 if you want the old CO1 scenarios.

    As Daz said we have a new business model where we give away the engine but charge for data. That's it in a nutshell and hence we restrict the import of earlier versions of scenarios. Check out the Pricing Policy here for a lot more details:
    http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/co2-pricing-policy.1295/
     
  9. GoodGuy

    GoodGuy Member

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    Erm, I think you meant scenarios and estabs....
    Because I can actually load HTTR maps, if I tell MapMaker to ignore the old map extension, as I can just change the filter to display "all files" (= *.*) in the open-file-dialogue. * hint hint *
     
  10. Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor

    Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor Panther Games Designer

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    Is that so. Did they load OK? Have you checked the layer data and map data?
     
  11. GoodGuy

    GoodGuy Member

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    Well, it was just a shot from the hip, to see if it's a viable way to use old map files. Visually, everything looked fine, not one layer missing. Even the "Heide" terrain and polders/beaches were in there. I did not check/calculate terrain tables, etc.
     
    #11 GoodGuy, May 27, 2015
    Last edited: May 27, 2015
  12. GoodGuy

    GoodGuy Member

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    Update: I (re-?)calculated the terrain tables and checked some map data, even line embankment values were displayed/converted correctly, up to the T and down to the shortest embankment line :). The movement table shows that all areas can be reached by foot units, and that certain terrain types deny movement to wheeled units.

    I found 2 "bugs", though, which can only be noticed at 8 to 2 meters per pixel: 2 little dots, where one looks like a highway "dot" (note: not a line) and the other one like a road dot, where each of them resides in the middle of a city layer, inside Arnheim. Can't be activated/moved, they are just there. :) These dots are NOT visible/present in the HTTR Map Maker. Other than that, no obvious errors, as a brief check of layer data, map data and map effects offered no visible changes or differences. I don't have the time to compare each and every value, though.
    Obviously, the current Map Maker is a beast :D.
     
    #12 GoodGuy, May 27, 2015
    Last edited: May 27, 2015
  13. Noxos

    Noxos Member

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    Hmm does sound like a lot of hassle. Is there any new content with the new engine yet or is it only UI changes? Anywhere I can read a detailed changelog versus the Matrix version? I need to convince myself it's worth paying twice for the same content ;).

    Thanks for all the responses, really appreciate it.
     
  14. GoodGuy

    GoodGuy Member

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    Have you tried the (free) CO2 version yet? It comes with 2 scenarios (where "greyhound dash" is a 6 days and 21 hrs scenario) and 1 tutorial scenario. I don't know if the several task and mission windows could be moved freely in BFTB (never got it) already, but that alone is a pretty neat feature to use on my 1920 : 1080 screen. I, for one, am on the edge, as it seems that one or another key feature (in my personal books) are not in the game yet, so I'm still not sure if I should get the commander pack. It is a very good deal though, since you get HTTR, COTA, BFTB and some additional scenarios for the price of a game (or even less, with the current discount).
     
    #14 GoodGuy, May 27, 2015
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
  15. Noxos

    Noxos Member

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    Ya the thing is I already own all those packs in the old version so I feel a bit irked if I have to buy them again :/.
     
  16. Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor

    Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor Panther Games Designer

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    Well no one is forcing you Noxos. We are giving away the engine which has some significant enhancements and took a lot of effort to develop. Grab that. It's free.
     
  17. Rheim Bren

    Rheim Bren Member

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    You don't have to rebuy anything. Just buy the CO2 scenario packs that you don't have and download the CO2 game for free. The Cauldron pack is new, I believe.

    Then play your previously purchased CO1 packs on CO1. CO1 is still a great game.

    No rebuys.
     
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  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Member

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    That still brings up a very legitimate question. Certainly a question that doesen't need to be answered right now, but: What future features are included in the current packs, before first 'DLCs' hit the market that we have to pay for? I think that is a reasonable question to ask from a customers perspective.

    No offense intended, just a pointer that might be intereresting in terms of marketing.

    Regards
     
  19. Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor

    Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor Panther Games Designer

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    Sorry Iconoclast. I have read your question a few times but still don't understand the thrust of it. Perhaps its to do with the naming.

    At the moment we have five 'modules' and one bundle 'pack'. We have two more 'modules' coming up, namely Westwall and KOAD. At the moment we plan to release those modules in the next few months. Assuming that happens then there will be no 'Core" engine updates until after they are released. But I am not guaranteeing that. It all depends on the internal testing we are doing on each data module.

    I plan to release the final CO2 core build later this week. That will be it in terms of the features in CO2. I may put subsequent minor patches to fix existing features but there will be no new ones till the next Core update. Before the next Core update occurs I have to upgrade our Visual Studio dev environment. I'm still on the old 2010 version. I know this will involve converting all our text code because MS (god love 'em) have deprecated all the old text code we currently use. That's going to be a lot of work. I have a new programming buddy, Dan, helping out on that, but it will stake us a month or so before we have the under our belt. Then we can start on the new features for CO3. These will be sequential tasking and triggers. When we release CO3 the engine will be free. As with CO2 you will then have the option to upgrade your exiting modules or not as you see fit.

    I don't know if that answers your question. Please let me know.
     
  20. GoodGuy

    GoodGuy Member

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    "Upgrading".... users who want new features will basically finance the release of new core versions by paying for upgrading their modules. How much will users have to pay for an upgrade?

    If the users have to pay for upgrading their modules (which they had paid for already), wouldn't it be a nice move to let them call one or another shot (= means priority for a new feature)?
    While it would be neat to have sequential tasks for friendly/enemy AI and triggers for scenario designers (and for more realistic/versatile AI reactions), I could imagine that users would prefer to have a dismount-feature for wheeled units, first, or a revision of fatigue/disengagement policies, or a feature where the player can assemble Kampfgruppen to his liking (by being able to create all new units, say combining all AT platoons and moving them over to a new AT unit with the size of a Coy, or where all mortars, 20mm AA guns or HMGs can be stripped and moved over to a new unit, to form a mortar or HMG Coy, for instance), for example.
     
    #20 GoodGuy, Jun 1, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2015

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