FIXED 5.0.8 - Show Stoppers

Discussion in 'CO2 - Game Support' started by john connor, Mar 17, 2015.

  1. john connor

    john connor Member

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    For what it's worth, my little opinion, to add to those that have posted about this already (including me), I think I wouldn't want to play this game unless (1) the speed and lag thing is sorted out, (2) the messages are sorted out. These 2 together would be show-stoppers for me and, all else being equal, I would enjoy playing CO1 more. So far those are the two that make it difficult, for me. The changes are all superb and I can see myself getting used to the new interface and loving it, there is a lot more functionality in many ways, but it can't be at the expense of the game working smoothly, as it did before in CO1, and a functional message system (where you can peruse messages back through time) is essential.
    Peter
     
    #1 john connor, Mar 17, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  2. Thomasew

    Thomasew Member

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    Hi John,


    Alas, .. I must agree with you. Many of the issues lie with the new UI, .. and I have experienced the same and/or similar problems to those you have experienced, .. and reported in this, and other threads.

    Can't say that I'm not disappointed, .. and at the same time surprised, .. that so many obvious, glaring, UI issues got past the Beta Testers.

    Hopefully, .. they'll get it sorted out soonish.


    Cheers
    Tom
     
  3. EzraNehemiah

    EzraNehemiah Member

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    I must also agree. It`s a show stopper for me as well.

    First of all I am not an emotional fan-boy. Just to clarify, I bought CO1 and its add-ons twice (HTTR three times!) in support (from panther and matrix) over the last several years. I am not prepared to shovel out an additional 50.00 (regardless of the deal) for a game that does not live up to it`s initial billing. The added features that are supposed to ratify the "born again" conversion of CO2 fail to mitigate the newly introduced lag. I can`t accept an unwanted "slow motion" feature (unacceptable lag) for the sake of dysfunctional eye candy. What good are the new features when one is discouraged from using them at the expense of the fluidness of game play. ( I have a power-house comp that can`t cope with the lag?).

    In light of the above, a 90 day "commander package" deal by unintentional default becomes a paid public beta. I am disappointed although grateful David provided the demo free of charge. In addition, I can understand the frustration of those who committed outright and retain the right to diplomatically express their opinion.

    In the long run I believe that supporters deserve a "rain check" on the "package deal" if the solution is extended further beyond the 90 day offer. I am in support of the product but not in this way. I am sorry. I hope and have confidence that it will be resolved eventually but if the lag does not get resolved I won`t be supporting CO2 further.

    All the best
     
  4. john connor

    john connor Member

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    I'm sure it will get resolved, EzraNehemiah. Maybe I ought to clarify, but my purpose in the post wasn't to gripe or threaten, of course, but just to highlight the areas that after a days testing seem to me to be most like a show stopper that would put me off, and hence (crash bugs aside) the things that I would most like (if I had my way) Dave to focus on. At the end of the day, though (for some odd reason) it wasn't billed as a public beta on the buy page, it IS a public beta we've bought (if we bought the content) and we all know that (because we were told that by Dave in here). I've kickstarted and paid beta for many other programs that were a pain at first (much worse than this) but righted themselves (with hard work from the devs) over time and I have no probs doing that with this game. I am a HUGE fan of this game because of the work put into the AI, and want that to continue. You can't find an AI like this anywhere else. The UI changes were not near top of my list for dev efforts (program and AI changes were), but the devs chose that as a preliminary trajectory and that's fine. Lots of people were crying out for better UI options (me too, in fact). I don't need a refund option or anything like that. Already enjoyed playing the African scenarios to the tune of 50eu, which is just a bit more than what I would spend on an hour lunch with friends each and every week..... It's a great game with a VERY small development team. I'm sure Dave understands the lag and slowdown is a pain. I have confidence he'll sort it!
     
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  5. Greg

    Greg Member

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    yes.. you are correct John. Well said.
     
  6. EzraNehemiah

    EzraNehemiah Member

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    John,
    Sure. "I don`t need a refund option." Nor do I and I never meant to imply a refund option. All I said was for those who purchased the deal, they can have the right to express their dissatisfaction of a product where the beta team knew full well of the "lag" but ambiguously allowed the public to discover it themselves after purchase. Then someone implied, "just close the window and all will be well" (unquote). The free demo only partly pacifies the obvious. I find that holding that obvious information (lag issue) to be unethical. Most people don`t criticize a product much because they want to be liked by a community rather than risk being filibustered. A community should be based on integrity, not the reluctance to voice an honest opinion, therefore I find the latter lacking which is the real impetus of my gripe in light of my past support.

    Like I said, I have supported this product from the beginning. I would rather wait until these issues are sorted out with the option to buy the "package" deal if the fix extends beyond the 90-day window. This is why I thanked David for the demo. I know all about the AI since day one but it doesn`t nullify the gripe.
     
  7. pekische

    pekische Member

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    To buy CO2 with Commander pack was clear thing for me... I consider this support development...

    But current state of CO2 is disappointment for me. I think devs launched beta version. There are many bugs and issues. There are many of them in this forum noticed (lagging, too many clicks UI, non user-friendly UI, issues with pause, no ability to resize windows, minor issues with graphic and many others...). I guess CO1 is still better for playing than CO2 in this time.

    But I don´t regret that my money have supported this game. I hope that devs will work hard and all of problems will fix. Now I stop playing CO2. I will wait for hotfixes and patches. I hope that these fixes and patches will be free... if no free my support will be over.

    Good luck, devs!
     
  8. Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor

    Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor Panther Games Designer

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    Thanks for the feedback guys.

    The first thing I want to say is that this was and is a public beta. I had stated that numerous times on this forum. Peter brought to my attention last night (Canberra time) about the fact that it is not clearly stated as such on the Core engine's product page. I emailed LNL last night and they have now added a statement to that effect. I should have checked that before the release and for that I apologise.

    However, I do not believe we have acted unethically. On my high end machine here the game runs slower that it did under CO1 but it does run IMO acceptably. I received one report from one of our testers that it ran slow but their machine wasn't all that flash. One of the main reasons for releasing a public beta was to get a broader range of testers with different machines and specs to test the product. We are a very small outfit. There is just me full time plus Paul Scobell who puts in some time when his busy full time job permits. Other than that we rely on volunteers to help with the beta testing. These are all busy people with their own lives to live and they help out as and when they can. Sometimes through dint of circumstance it is not possible to get enough of these testing when they are needed the most. Such was the case a few months ago and so we decided on the public beta route. Now if we had not done so then it would take a lot longer to get a finished product.

    I think people should be a little more understanding and not be so quick to judge us by the same yard stick that you may a much larger company.

    Having said all that, I will take a look at the speed issue once the flurry of activity here permits. I already have some options in mind. The most obvious is to blit a stored copy of unit icons if the details have not changed rather than redraw every icon all the time. As I mentioned in another thread Paul Scobell is looking into this and I'll touch base with him tonight and get his advice. We will address the issue. It may take several builds, but we'll get there.
     
  9. William Baugh

    William Baugh Member

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    Dave,

    Coming from other forums, you have a number of people who have bought the complete package not knowing this is a public beta. There are also rumors running rampant on pricing.

    I really think it would be good to have you or David officially state clearly how pricing will work moving out of public beta to the 2.0 release and beyond. Are we looking at paying $50 for a public beta to then have to pay another amount for the release version?
     
  10. Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor

    Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor Panther Games Designer

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    Not at all. If you have paid for the Commander Pack 1 then it is yours. We will be releasing new minor builds for the Core Engine on a on going basis as we develop and refine the engine. These will all be free. Your Commander pack will work with these. If for any reason we need to do a conversion of the data then it will be done free of charge.

    Having said that, if we put out a new core update with new features, as opposed to a new minor build with fixes, then you will have the option to pay for an update to your data. It's not compulsory. You can choose to stick with the existing core engine. That's the model we proposed months ago and it's still the model we are working on today.

    I appreciate the need for clarity on this and I have drafted a pricing policy statement and emailed this to LNL for their comment. I will post this on the main page of the forum once I have this back, hopefully tomorrow.
     
  11. William Baugh

    William Baugh Member

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    Thank you Dave.
     
  12. Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor

    Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor Panther Games Designer

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    FIXED

    See separate threads on Game Slow Down and Message Log
     
  13. EzraNehemiah

    EzraNehemiah Member

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    The 5.0.8. update appears to have fixed the initial "show stopper" grievances. I can select any and all menus without any apparent slow down. Makes a remarkable difference to the game play. This is a prompt fix that deserves mention in light of my initial reservations. Nice to see such a significant move forward. This is a credit to David in his prompt and loyal response, as he has always demonstrated, throughout the development of this evolving title.

    Thank You David!
     
  14. Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor

    Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor Panther Games Designer

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    And thank you Ezra. Enjoy!
     

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