GPQ - destroy the enemy; position changes

[Velkan]

Two questions regarding gameplay:

1. What's the most effective way to destroy, disband or force surrender an enemy unit? Encirclement? Massive suppression? Pinning them down (how)? What works for you? I see players in AARs turning the map into a military graveyard, but I'm having difficulty in doing so even with combined arms and attacking from several directions at once. My goal is to prevent stragglers from escaping and harassing my lines later.

2. Sometimes I order minor changes in position to my units but they don't respond (they get the order but don't react). Changes such as defending slightly to the top of a hill, or 100m into a town, etc. that are close, but still outside the unit footprint. The only solution I came up with was to order the unit to move somewhere, then come back and defend exactly where I want.

Thanks

 

[Daz]

Two questions regarding gameplay:

1. What's the most effective way to destroy, disband or force surrender an enemy unit? Encirclement? Massive suppression? Pinning them down (how)? What works for you? I see players in AARs turning the map into a military graveyard, but I'm having difficulty in doing so even with combined arms and attacking from several directions at once. My goal is to prevent stragglers from escaping and harassing my lines later.

It's very hard to stop all the stragglers escaping, especialy in close terrain or at night where they have plenty of cover to escape into.
All of what you mentioned above certainly helps for the initial attack, where they are dug in and still in good condition, but once you have them on the run, all you need to do is maintain contact.
This can be done with a move order in a formation like arrow head, with allow attacks ticked, or with more attack or probe orders.

You don't need to send out the whole Bn to take out whats left of a retreating enemy Coy.
Economy of force is very important in the game to ensure you don't wear down all your men at the same time.
If intel indicates the escaping enemy unit is reduced to a 1/3 of its men then you only need to send one of your Coy's after it to maintain a ratio of 3:1 attackers to defenders. As the enemy unit will not have had time to dig in you could probably get away with 2:1 especialy if you support it with artillery.
Artillery is a great force multiplier, often allowing you to send quite weak units out for this task, if properly supported.
Fast units like Recon are ideal for maintining a partol along your MSR to ensure it stays clear of enemy forces, and for hunting down stragglers.
Also keep an eye out for failed resupply attempts which will be yellow messages in the message log, which will indicate enemy on the MSR.
If the supply is uneffected don't get side tracked into trying to destory all the enemy stragglers.
If you are where they want to be (on their objective) sooner or later they will come to you

2. Sometimes I order minor changes in position to my units but they don't respond (they get the order but don't react). Changes such as defending slightly to the top of a hill, or 100m into a town, etc. that are close, but still outside the unit footprint. The only solution I came up with was to order the unit to move somewhere, then come back and defend exactly where I want.

Thanks

See here:
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/unable-to-move-short-distances.1837/

Hope that helped

 

[Velkan]

Thank you Daz, it certainly did

I'll put that advice to good use. As for the short distances problem, I'll follow that thread.

 

[GoodGuy]

Two questions regarding gameplay:

1. What's the most effective way to destroy, disband or force surrender an enemy unit? Encirclement? Massive suppression? Pinning them down (how)? What works for you? I see players in AARs turning the map into a military graveyard, but I'm having difficulty in doing so even with combined arms and attacking from several directions at once. My goal is to prevent stragglers from escaping and harassing my lines later.

2. Sometimes I order minor changes in position to my units but they don't respond (they get the order but don't react). Changes such as defending slightly to the top of a hill, or 100m into a town, etc. that are close, but still outside the unit footprint. The only solution I came up with was to order the unit to move somewhere, then come back and defend exactly where I want.

Thanks

I use several methods:

1) Force:
If I know that my unit has more/better equipment (weapons, HMGs, maybe even flamethrowers ["Sturmpioniere" combat engineers]) or more men/experience/better morale, I often give direct orders to rush in (move order with fastest route in unfavourable terrain or the safest route in more open terrain), with aggro and fire rate (ROF) set to min., but losses set to max, which will - if this type of "rush" succeeds halfway - ensure that my unit does not stop every 50 meters (or so) to take cover and which will result in my unit jumping the enemy unit. Once they are on top of or next to each other, the suppresion level/fire rates hit a level where my unit is forced to take cover anyways, usually, and since the enemy position has been reached or since my unit has caught up with a running unit, I then switch to max aggro, max ROF and watch the outcome.
If the enemy unit, which was either relocating, or running from my unit, initially, then just sat there (defending), the possibility that my unit will retreat may be somewhat higher, especially if the enemy had managed to dig in. But if the enemy unit was just reorganizing/preparing to move, there are high chances that they route (and not "just" retreat) right away, if the losses are very high.

Since this game still has a problem with stragglers (or routing units that cross even the most unfriendly or open terrain with speed), and since there is no controllable manual retreat function in this game, except for the weird withdraw function, it's not easy to completely destroy such unit, quite often, as an uncontrollable retreat (yellow) or a rout (red) may keep you from chasing a weak enemy unit. Pincer attacks definetely help, surrounding (3 friendly units, that keep the enemy "boxed", are sufficient) an enemy unit will do the job most of the time, providing that there are proper blocking positions, and that one or another unit "sheperds" the enemy unit, to avoid an escape.

2) Recon and artillery:
The other effective way is to properly scout the area. If you set scouts to min aggro, they will pass the enemy and avoid to engage where possible, giving you the opportunity to get a good picture of the whereabouts of the enemy. In WW2, the Cavalry/Recon elements used to be the eyes of the division. For example, the German 1st Panzer-Division's Aufklärungsabteilung (Recon Bn) had up to 4 "squadrons" between 1939 and 1941/42 (the number kept changing), but after the heavy losses winter in 1941/42, after doing away with Kradschützen-Bns/Coys and transforming such units into lightly armored units, the usual setup was then 4 Coys (= 4 squadrons) plus one supply coy, and in some cases (like with the 1st Panzer's Recon Bn) 4 Coys + one heavy coy ("5th Coy"), PLUS one supply coy and/or column.

So, find or chase the foe, then bombard him and make sure you keep contact, so that you can keep bombarding him. Since I use to control all arty pieces manually, the numbers of enemy units "destroyed by fire" (I am guessing that "fire" includes the bombardments) and "casualties caused by bombardments" are usually relatively high, courtesy of manual arty missions. It's pretty realistic, too, as - for example - 65% - 70% (depending on source) of the casualties in the German Army on the Eastern Front were caused by artillery shells (mortars and artillery pieces), in 1945. British figures for the entire war even state that only 10% of the British CAS were caused by bullets/mines, but 70% by arty shells.

There are British figures stating that 75% of the CAS in Normandy were caused by mortar fire (most likely at the beaches and slightly inland), while for the entire war "only" 20% of the British CAS were attributed to mortar fire.

Recon units:
For example, in 1943, the Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 1 (a particularly strong Recon Bn) featured the following units:

• HQ

1. Panzer-Späh-Kompanie (bicycle),
2. Panzer-Späh-Kompanie (halftracks),
3. Panzer-Späh-Coy ( with leSPw U304(f), which werecaptured French UNIC P107, which were converted to armored personnel carriers, as they lost the superstructures and received armored hulls, similar to the SdKfz 251 series, and were usually issued to armored units in France - 3000 converted Unic P107 aka U304(f) were used by the German army, including some with different layouts, ranging from MGs to short-barreled Inf + AT guns ),
4. Panzer-Späh-Coy ( leSPw U304(f) ), and a
5. 5th Panzer-Späh-Coy (heavy coy).

The Coys had fast scout cars, too, of course, as well as special scout vehicles with extended (or even relatively long) radio ranges (using vehicles like the Sd.Kfz 223 and 231 early in the war, and similar vehicles later on, where the fastest car types then featured max speeds of 90 - 100 km/h), in order to be able to maintain radio contact and to report sightings to line units and artillery.

The strongest German Recon Element in WW2 was the Panzer-Aufklärungs-Regiment 91, which had 2 (!) Bns with 3 Coys each and an additional 7th Panzer-Späh-Coy, and was one of 5 such regiments that ever existed, IIRC.
The Recon-Regiment layout was a pre-war design and not standardized at all (which could lead to unusual and strong troop layouts), and all of the other regiments (numbered 6 through 9) were disbanded, reduced and distributed to Abteilungen (Bns) either before the war already, or in 1940, latest. Their Bns were reorganized and their troops distributed among the then (in 1940/41) favored fast Kradschützen-Bns (motorbikes with sidecars for the MGs/gunners).
In March 1943, the regiment-design was picked up again, and the entire newly formed Recon-Regiment 91 was assigned to the 1st Panzer-Division, but since it turned out that the strained situation regarding recruits/reinforcements and materiel did not support such a strong unit within a Panzer-Division, the unit was "disbanded" after 6 weeks, means the unarmored Bn was removed and the troops distributed to other units, but the remaining armored Bn renamed and reorganized to form the Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 1 (TO above) and kept as armored recon element of the 1st Panzer-Division.
Since all armies had dedicated scout/recon units (not sure about the Russians, though), and since - in many situations or weather conditions - scouting on the ground proved to be the only way to gather info about enemy strengths and whereabouts, the combined effort (recon + artillery, or line support) will also make a difference in the game.

• Whatsoever, the fastest elements of a Recon Bn should be separated, so that the player can perform fast scout runs with historical speeds.

• The game also needs a "hold fire" button, so that recon elements can stick to observing or maintaining visual contact from camouflaged positions or elevations, without engaging (and risking detection).

• Sighting/view range usually outmatched the max. effective weapon range (of the observer's or the foe's small arms and light guns).

• During encounters of German heavy tanks with Allied Inf / AT guns in open terrain (desert, Russian Steppe, French, German or Dutch plains, the effective range of the tank guns usually outmatched the Inf's/AT's effective range. Superior German optics provided less blur, so that German tanks or Flak 88 units could engage Allied tanks or gun emplacements way before and from outside the enemy's effective view/engagement range. Basically, the Allied tanks just saw a rough blurry shape above 800-1000 meters. Flak 88s scored confirmed hits (tank kills) at ~2800 meters in North Africa, Tigers engaged gun emplacements and Inf positions in Russia at up to 3000 meters (ballistic trajectory/aiming). The Tiger's manual encouraged the crews to trust the effectiveness (ie. range) of their gun and calculate the distances with range tables and the aid of the reticle markers. Even at distances of 2800-3000 meters, the 3rd HE-shot was usually a direct hit, with that method, and with an experienced crew.

• And, last but not least, a recon unit sitting on a hill usually saw the enemy before he saw the recon unit, especially under good weather conditions (quite some german hills in the Rhein and Mosel area, AND the Eifel area, north of the Huertgen area provide view ranges of up to 30-66 kilometers, on clear days, same goes for some hills near or just slightly North of the Huertgen area, and - afaik - also goes for one or another elevation in the Ardennes sector). A prominent example would be the Burgberg (near the town of Bergstein in the Eifel Region), where the roof of a bunker installation on the hill top was used by German artillery observers, who could then survey quite some movements and whereabouts of US troops during the several Battles of Hürtgen Forest. The hill was either ignored, or not identified as obs point by the Allies for months (and only the "Battle of Hill 400", with the final US assault to capture the hill top, then resulted in the Germans losing that obs point). Another German obs point might have been the "Signal de Botrange" in the High Fenn mountain region in Belgium, as its Baltia-hill (694 meters) forms the highest elevation in Belgium, and as it features a weather observation tower (built in 1933/34) that still exists.

 

[Velkan]

Interesting tactics GoodGuy, I'll try them out. Your attacking units don't suffer many casualties doing so? It sound like a soviet human wave kind of thing, risky even against a suppressed enemy.

As for the recon, I agree entirely. Since I saw players like Daz using it quite often to patrol MSRs, fast road columns with high agro and ROF, I adopted the tactic, but I feel that is something you can only use inside your perimeter against encircled stragglers, to keep your supply convoys safe. Using them outside my lines has saved me in the past (but lost that recon company), when I detected a company of Panthers flanking my units through a far away track from where I didn't expect any attack.
I'm a big fan of using artillery to soften enemies right before an attack. If I'm not constrained by time, I coordinate every attack to have as much fire support as possible, since I prefer to strain my Art Coys and logistics than line unit's manpower.

Awesome historical post, btw. It was nice to read

 

[GoodGuy]

Awesome historical post, btw. It was nice to read

Thanks. Btw, that smiley either adds a tongue-in-cheek tone, or some ironic form of smile that comes with sarcasm, to your statement. It seems like younger (than me) European(?) people, and especially Germans, don't seem to know the original meaning of the particular smileys, anymore, in my experience.
Also, German teens and twens use these 2 symbols quite often: ^^ or ^ ^ . Actually, they use it in chats, games and SMS messages after every 2nd sentence.
I was told that it's supposed to depict 2 eyebrows and parts of the facial expression that comes with laughter, but I fail to see the connection. Actually, it's the short form of the "cheerful emoticon" (Emoji) (which goes like this: ^_^ ) still used by Facebook, Skype, online chats and in SMS, nowadays, and which spread when Facebook + Skype + ICQ got "hip", and which then got shortened in online chats and SMS messages, that kids don't even know where it came from, anymore, these days, haha.
Well, I guess every generation has its emoticons/trends/fashions, but the first gen. of ("old school") emoticons is still valid and will still be understood pretty much everywhere.

So, with that smiley, you are saying that your statement "it was a nice read" is rather humorously or otherwise not seriously intended. If you mean what you're saying, you should put a regular smiley that leaves no doubt about what you say and how you say it (like this one: ).

 

[Velkan]

I get what you are saying, I know people who use this smiley in a sarcastic way. I truly meant what I said, it was enjoyable to read the details of German recon Regt/Bns, especialy from someone who seems to know what he's writing about (your long and detailed post proves it).