Help and Tips for succesfuly executing complex attacks

Conrad

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Hello I am hoping I can get some ideas from other players on how to help ensure victory on complex attacks.

My personal white whale is as playing as the Germans on the Elseborn Ridge scenario. It vexes me!

My situation. I am having Kampfgroup Ott and Kampfgroup Mulller 12 and 25th SS Regiments execute a complex attack in several parts from the woods on the east side of Murrigen. I have split my attack into three groups.

Group 1 Armor and AT guns I position on the edge of the open ground with LOS into the village (this is done under cover of darkness)
Group 2. All Motorized Infantry Panzer Grenadiers ordered to leave the woods and attack directly towards the village (timed to have the attack occur as dawn is breaking)
Group 3 On Foot Infantry Hooks to the right flank (left of the objective) to try and tie down any reinforcements and eliminate Stragglers.
Additionally I have positioned the 84th Light Flak Battalion on the ridge to the south of the village to help provide additional fire support.

My attacks seem to typically stall out at the boundary of Murrigen without me decisively taking the village even though it is defended by a mostly tired and half strength infantry with some ATG and Light Tanks. When my attacks stalls my units proceed to stay in the open exposed areas where they proceed to get pounded by the numerous US artillery.

Here are my questions
1. Should you attach artillery units directly to the groups (I have)
2. Should I attack completely in the dark so at least I will be in the village as opposed to trying to time it to wait until dawn (I rested my troops in the woods overnight so they have almost 0 fatigue)
3. I have tried different formations (with right echelon formation being the worst for stalling) and mostly use arrow formation. Any better suggestions.
4. should I set the final position for the attack well past the objective or on the objective?
5. Any settings that will help my troops get in close and fight it out in the village instead of getting pounded in the fields (I use max on RoF, aggro, and Ammo and use shortest and fastest for movement settings.
6.I try and make my footprint to be the same size as the village for each of the attacking groups with my facing towards the village. Should I go bigger?
7. I really hammer the village with a creeping barrage of artillery so I feel pretty confident the defenders are low cohesiveness but I still seem to get cold coked by their defensive fire causing me to stop.
8. When the attack stalls should I start micromanaging individual units and order them to attack towards the objective, or attack in a different direction?
9. Am I better off ordering the units to attack individually or in smaller groups instead of larger formations through the HQ units?

Any advice or suggestions are appreciated love the game

Con
 
Last edited:

Conrad

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OK here are some screen shots (turned out I didnt do a good job explaining in the original post. I had an additional group of panzer grenadiers attack a good vantage point South East of the village also) I have added in the screen shots along with my battle plan. Thanks Dave I have sent you the save files that correspond to these four save points. I am sure its not a bug and more my planning (or lack of it)

Thanks
Conrad.

0422 Lets make a plan!
D3%200400%20start%20of%20plan_zpsafq7gb9q.jpg


0537 Oh my god it too early to be tramping around in this snow and mud
D3%200530%20stepping%20off%20copy_zps4ai0uk7k.jpg


0608 Time to get cracking boys
D3%200600%20attack%20commences_zps39rhyyq3.jpg


0840 the attack falls apart
D3%200840%20Attack%20stalls_zpsgpgs31yk.jpg
 

MarkShot

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I haven't played this. But a few comments:

I you must cross open ground with infantry, then begin before the sun comes up. You should be in contact by the time spotting becomes a factor.

On the other hand, if you have armor, then attack in the day light. They will drop off and deploy. Now, another approach is if you have some nice ridges. Have your armor take up defensive positions during the night and dig in. They will be better prepared to hold during the day and support.

I like line formations usually myself. Consider that successive lines and frontage controls can give you some depth; greater resilience. Generally, I will attack at the objective. The AI will exploit past before securing.

Reasons not to:

(1) There is a good defensive position like a village beyond which you want to clear out.

(2) You got them with their backs to a river or something impassable. You can finish them off this way. What might have been a battlefield victory can become a Texas Turkey Shoot.

Micromanaging in the midst of an attack with order delays is the kiss of death. Everything stops and become vulnerable. Plan well, and then, ride it out. Don't change orders until you got them on the run. Often, I will order the defensive perimeter before they begin to secure.

Big single attack versus independent smaller attacks?

This issue is often time. The former chews up time, and may not strike with a bigger fist. Time does not matter when the enemy has been there and is dug in, but if the enemy is reinforcing, moving, deploying, and digging-in ... best to not let that happen, I think.

In fact, in one published AAR I did for COTA, I didn't even attack. I moved (or you could say hasty attack). Why? Well, I had the enemy on the move, time was of the absolute essence. This was before you could specify ATTACKS as check option. So, I assume now such a hasty approach when properly execute might be even more effective.

---

The situation is fluid. And so must you be. (BTW, I only have one day's worth of experience with CO2. So, feel free to ignore me.)
 

MarkShot

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Dave always says keep a reserve. (a good point)

I've stripped earlier objectives to upper cut into an attack which is faltering.

But remember:

(1) The AI is very good at working its way (bypass) around you and getting behind you.

(2) Your supply lines are more likely to get cut like this.

I only briefly glanced at your plan (I don't want to spoil my own play). But you are going about things the right way. This is not a lasso and click game. :)

---

I forgot one other tip.

Probe:

(1) You might find out that the defense is not really there. Then, what you want is not a complex attack, but to get there quickly.

(2) You might find out that it is defended very seriously. Then, the probe should develop a target portfolio for your guns.
 

Ripppe

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I might toss in my 5 cents although the master minds of strategy may have more valid views on the matter. :)

One thing to consider is how long has the defender been in the village i.e. what is their deployment status? For instance, in my latest playthrough (All American over Nijmegen) a handful of smallish units refused stubbornly to dislodge from the center of Nijmegen although they were under constant artillery fire and were attacked from several directions with mechanized/armored battalions. It took me quite some time to brush them out.

One thing I might suggest is that - if at all possible - try to get the attacking formations to come from different directions. You know, if the front door doesn't want to budge you might as well test the side door. In your example, could you try what happens if Group 4 starts its attack from one kilometer (=square) to the left (west?)? Your last picture shows that both groups 3 and 4 are basically on the same front thus making the front narrower and more populated with men (-> juicy target for US arty) + you miss the possible flanking opportunity.

Also, as MarkShot already stated, it's usually unwise to micromanage the orders while the attack is on, if you play with orders delay.

One other thing: don't rely on the pre-attack bombardment to be enough. I have found it the best to manually manage the arty assets to suppress the enemy during the attack.
 

Conrad

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Hello everyone

Thanks for the tips. To help clarify some questions. I do play with the Order delay on realistic. I also keep the arty firing on the units until the "avoid Friendlies" behavior kicks in as the infantry units close in for assault. I did try attacking from two different directions (north for the Infantry and East for the Panzer Grenadiers). I had the north attack timed later deliberately due to them being on foot and offset a bit more east of the objective

Thanks

Conrad
 

Kurt

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Hi Conrad , I personally don't use complex attacks as the AI tends to use some curious approach routes . I mostly make individual battalion attacks and try to combine them appropriately . Your use of armour in a fire support role is my technique also , having your precious panzers thrown into close combat is costly .
 

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