LOS Still Unclear

Discussion in 'Nations At War Series' started by Norman Stewart, Jul 10, 2019.

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  1. Norman Stewart

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    I am still struggling with LOS determination in conjunction with elevation.

    6.1.2 Hill-Level LOS


    If the attacker is on Hill Level, it cannot fire at an enemy unit if its LOS crosses a Crest Line unless the target … or either the attacker or the target is adjacent to the Crest Line.


    If the attacker is on Hill Level, it cannot fire at a Ground-Level enemy unit that is behind and adjacent to a hex that blocks LOS.


    The target is considered behind LOS blocking terrain if the LOS from the attacker to the defender crosses a LOS blocking-terrain hex adjacent to the target before it reaches the target’s hex.


    If the attacker is on a Hill Level, it cannot fire at an enemy unit on Ground Level if a Hill hex is between the attacker’s hex and target’s hex.


    Here are rather exhaustive examples I've created trying to make sure I understand once and for all:

    upload_2019-7-10_22-25-38.png

    QUESTIONS:

    1. Unit A is on the Hill? At the edge of the “Crest Line”? But is it “adjacent” to the Crest Line between it and Unit C? Does “adjacent” really mean its hex-sides composed of the Crest Line?

    2. Otherwise, is Unit B adjacent to the Crest Line between it and Unit C?

    3. Unit A has LOS to Unit C, since Unit C and Unit A are adjacent to the Crest Line?

    4. Unit B also has LOS to Unit C, since Unit C is adjacent to the Crest Line?

    5. Unit B has NO LOS to Unit J, as neither Unit is adjacent to the intervening Crest Line?

    6. Unit A has NO LOS to Unit I, but if it were one more hex away it would not be blocked by the woods?

    7. Unit D is on a Level 2 Hill?

    8. Unit D has LOS to Unit F, as both are adjacent to one of the two intervening Crest Lines?

    9. Unit D has NO LOS to Unit H, as it not adjacent to both Crest Lines? This doesn’t seem to make sense.

    10. Would Unit G still have LOS to Unit K, as the latter is adjacent to the Crest Line?

    11. In which case, why would Unit G NOT have LOS to Unit K – it should have a better angle?
     
  2. Sean Druelinger

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    1. Unit A is on the Hill? At the edge of the “Crest Line”? But is it “adjacent” to the Crest Line between it and Unit C? Yes The hexes touch- adjacent
    Does “adjacent” really mean its hex-sides composed of the Crest Line? the crest line for game mechanic purposes is the edge of the hex even if it does not touch the hex grid border

    2. Otherwise, is Unit B adjacent to the Crest Line between it and Unit C? Unit B cannot see Unit C. Look more at the white lines than the art.

    3. Unit A has LOS to Unit C, since Unit C and Unit A are adjacent to the Crest Line? Yes

    4. Unit B also has LOS to Unit C, since Unit C is adjacent to the Crest Line? No. See response to 2 the hex where unit A is, is a hill hex. use white lines for identification of crest lines

    5. Unit B has NO LOS to Unit J, as neither Unit is adjacent to the intervening Crest Line? Correct but for the same reasons it cannot see C

    6. Unit A has NO LOS to Unit I, but if it were one more hex away it would not be blocked by the woods? It cannot see because it is adjacent to the Woods. If it was 2 hexes away from the woods and not other terrain around then LOS is established.

    7. Unit D is on a Level 2 Hill? Yes

    8. Unit D has LOS to Unit F, as both are adjacent to one of the two intervening Crest Lines? No Unit F cannot be seen by D. It is behind terrain like if it were woods

    9. Unit D has NO LOS to Unit H, as it not adjacent to both Crest Lines? This doesn’t seem to make sense. Unit H can be seen. It is not adjacent to a crest line nor any terrain.

    10. Would Unit G still have LOS to Unit K, as the latter is adjacent to the Crest Line? No

    11. In which case, why would Unit G NOT have LOS to Unit K – it should have a better angle? Because there are 2 hill hexes in between them that would block LOS.

    Please let me know it this helps
    Thank you
    Sean Druelinger
     
  3. Norman Stewart

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    Thank you for the quick reply.

    I was missing the last part of 6.1.2: "If the attacker is on a Hill Level, it cannot fire at an enemy unit on Ground Level if a Hill hex is between the attacker’s hex and target’s hex." I was too focused on Crest Lines - I also struggle to not see "slopes" leading to a full Hill level.

    Q 9: I can see how being away from the slope would better enable Unit H to be seen, but I can't find anything in the rules that indicates Crest Line blocking affects are only if adjacent. Can you clarify where that is? I'm not saying it doesn't seem correct.

    How are Level-2 Hills treated for LOS purposes - I know they're rare, but I could find not indications in the rules?

    BONUS QUESTION: Does positioning on Hills have any effect on LOS into Depressions?

    Thanks again.


     
  4. Sean Druelinger

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    Hello
    Q 9: I can see how being away from the slope would better enable Unit H to be seen, but I can't find anything in the rules that indicates Crest Line blocking affects are only if adjacent. Can you clarify where that is? I'm not saying it doesn't seem correct.
    A crest line is represented by a white line of a hill. This is the point where elevation changes but it is representative of the whole hex. So being adjacent really means being in the hex with the crest line. (you are at the edge of the hill) if you are firing at a unit on the ground level you can see it as long as the unit is one or more hexes away from a hex containing blocking terrain.

    How are Level-2 Hills treated for LOS purposes - I know they're rare, but I could find not indications in the rules? They are treated the same as normal hills. They do not provide any added bonus to LOS. It is just a hill on top of a hill.

    BONUS QUESTION: Does positioning on Hills have any effect on LOS into Depressions? Units on Hills can see into Depressions, unless the depression hex is within one hex of blocking terrain and in the LOS sight line.
    Thank you
    Sean Druelinger
     

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