Melee bad luck?

[SteveH]

Hi,
Sorry, I am still trying to learn the system and your forums are fantastic.
I am really struggling with the whole Melee rule, I am not sure if, I enter a hex for melee, with say three units, and melee with one enemy unit, I win, that unit is destroyed, with a ratio of 7:1 then comes his defensive melee, of 1:7, he also wins, by rolling the die. Does this mean I lose all my 3 units, as well as his unit in the hex?
It has happened to me twice, the dice Gods went against me. I have no problems with the ratio, just the procedure. I have read somewhere, you only melee with one unit at a time?

Sorry it is a stupid question I know, but I just can't understand why one enemy unit with a with a firepower of 1, can eliminate my leader and, my, 364 squad with an M60 with a 264 squad, in a defensive melee.
If you could help, it would be very much appreciated.

 

[Barthheart]

Answered in the rules section.

 

[Ryan Shannahan]

Hi,
Sorry, I am still trying to learn the system and your forums are fantastic.
I am really struggling with the whole Melee rule, I am not sure if, I enter a hex for melee, with say three units, and melee with one enemy unit, I win, that unit is destroyed, with a ratio of 7:1 then comes his defensive melee, of 1:7, he also wins, by rolling the die. Does this mean I lose all my 3 units, as well as his unit in the hex?

​

Steve, paragraphs 5 & 6 (including the example paragraph in the count) of 8.0 Melee should answer most of your uncertainty.

In my own parlance:
The attacking side always attacks with all melee eligible units (no reason not to). The attacking side chooses which of the defending units to target. This could be any number of melee eligible units in the hex, just one or up to three, per the stacking limitations, if present. If the Kill Number is reached or exceeded, all targeted melee units are eliminated.

But before you remove any casualties from the defending side, the defenders become the attackers and return fire. Same as above, they can choose to attack any of their opponent's melee eligible units. After this second attack is resolved, any casualties from both sides are removed from the hex. If only non-melee eligible units are from a faction remain, they are eliminated.

Bear in mind, targeting fewer enemy units will generally result in a more favorable odds ratio. But that higher likelihood of inflicting casualties means opposing units are not eliminated if the Kill Number is reached. Targeting more or all enemy units generally results in a lower odds ration, but if successful, all opposing units would be eliminated.

Pay attention to the ratio on the Melee Table. I don't think anything goes as far as 7:1 or 1:7.

But yes, the side with terrible odds can still succeed in wiping out a much larger stack. Therein you find some of the fun decision-making in this game. Do you go for a fire attack which won't subject your troops to retaliatory fire? Or do you go for the more risky but perhaps more rewarding melee attack? ​

It has happened to me twice, the dice Gods went against me. I have no problems with the ratio, just the procedure. I have read somewhere, you only melee with one unit at a time?

It has happened to me twice, the dice Gods went against me. I have no problems with the ratio, just the procedure. I have read somewhere, you only melee with one unit at a time?

This isn't anywhere in the rules.

​

Sorry it is a stupid question I know, but I just can't understand why one enemy unit with a with a firepower of 1, can eliminate my leader and, my, 364 squad with an M60 with a 264 squad, in a defensive melee.
If you could help, it would be very much appreciated.

This should be a low frequency, high severity event. For example, think of it as the successful outcome of a determined foe who is willing to sacrifice himself using an explosive to take out a larger force. With the size of the hex, melee doesn't mean strictly hand to hand fighting, so in a prepared position at close range, an enemy might indeed be able to inflict heavy casualties on the advancing enemy.

 

[Jeff Lewis]

Been working on the v5.0 rules and have done a reorganization of section 8.0. Now contains lots of bullet points and a bunch of examples.

The point at hand comes up with text that, in the v4.1 rules had this in an example:
Unmodified attacks at less than 1:3 odds are treated as 1:3, and cannot be conducted against multiple units.

Basically, a very important Melee detail buried in an example.

In v5.0, this is now a bullet point, with more elucidating text added:
Unmodified “attacks” at less than (worse than) 1:3 odds are treated as 1:3, and cannot be conducted against multiple units that exceed
1:3 odds (see Example 3).

Now attacks is written as "attacks", as it is earlier in the section noted that both sides get to attack (roll) during a Melee, etc. And now Example 3 in the section sorts it out further:
Example 3: Unmodified attacks at worse than 1:3 are treated as 1:3, and they cannot be conducted against multiple units, thus if a French 1-5-4 Squad is in a hex with a German 1-4-4 Squad with a 2-FP SW (total FP of 3) and a 2-6-4 Squad (total stack FP of 5), the
French 1-5-4 Squad cannot attack both German Squads (1:5 odds reduced to 1:3); he can choose to attack either the 1-4-4 Squad with the SW, at 1:3 odds, or the 2-6-4 Squad, at 1:2 odds.

This sorts out the situation you have brought up, so there's no outrageous outcomes, etc.; thus in your situation, the 1-FP Squad would have to "attack" either the 3-FP Squad with the 2-FP SW (at 1:3, despite it being 1:5) or the 2-FP Squad (at 1:2).

-Jeff