Right choice but something I noticed.

Discussion in 'Command Ops Series' started by Jason Rimmer, Sep 19, 2015.

  1. Jason Rimmer

    Jason Rimmer Member

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    So bought the Cauldron module and pleased I did, most scenarios I hadn't had since COTA.

    However still seeing HQ's lead the way regularly be it move or Attack orders.

    I think units in a fortified area in defence and they have a defend order with max losses etc shouldn't retreat out of the fortified area, except in extreme conditions. I just can't see it happening that soldiers would run out of their fortified area unless they had taken massive casualties and rush out panicked or with total moral collapse. Infact I still feel units are to easy or go to quickly into retreat status. In attack maybe there could be a status which reflects that an attacking unit has stopped to dig in and re organise rather than retreat further back. Retreating I feel should be if an attack has totally broke down and the enemy is counter attacking and in defense with moral collapse or severe casualties.

    Finally would love to see a more detailed AAR per unit. Showing how well it performed and how many casualties inflicted and what and who they where. If any units surrendered to them and an over all performance percentage. Also whether it has any awards awarded to it.

    Also what would be cool is a worded description of how the battle went. Naming units that attacked and at what time, if they where successful and at what time. When you where attacked and by who and at what time..all chronological and written in a narrative style.

    Finally possible commander casualties and to be informed at the time and in the final AAR. Also break down of Inf casualties into Enlisted, NCO and Officer wounded and killed. This would be a number from within a set percentage which would be based on average statistics. SO say out of 1,000 men the game takes between 60 to 70% wounded and the rest killed and then dish out between the ranks again using some sort of average so 5 to 10% Officers between 10 to 20% NCO's and the rest enlisted. All chrome but will add to immersion.
     
  2. Kurt

    Kurt Member

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    Hi Jason , I assume you are on the latest build . Dave has adjusted the code to reduce defensive retreats when units are entrenched / fortified or in favourable terrain . I feel the balance is about right now but I would be interested to here how others feel on this subject .When it comes to assaulting units I do tend to agree that they retreat to easily when they come under fire . Attacks do disintegrate to easily at times , behaviour you would expect from tired , poorly trained , inexperienced troops . I have seen assaulting units with high morale and high aggression run away from small-arms fire with just one or two casualties !!!
     
  3. Daz

    Daz Member

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    I tend to agree with your observation that some units pull back out of good defensive positions before taking substantial casualties.
    Like Kurt said I have seen high quality units, with max losses set, retreat after taking just a few casualties.
    I have also seen the same units hold stubbornly onto a position until they are down to their last few men.
    I guess its all down to the roll of the dice.

    Having said that, I have also been in the situation where my units have come under sustained bombardment and because they have not withdrawn have sustained continual attrition, until they have been almost completely destroyed, where if they had pulled back early could have negated this unnecessary loss.

    With a few unexplainable exceptions, I think that the balance is about right.
    What would be good in my opinion though is units with retake position ticked, should retain their full defensive bonus for being dug in, or entrenched, immediately they regain their old positions and they should retake their old positions with a probe, not a move as this makes them more vulnerable to any units that have moved into it.
     
    #3 Daz, Sep 20, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2015
  4. Ripppe

    Ripppe Member

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    Does the acceptable losses level in fact effect how long the units will try to hold on? For quite a long time I believed so, but when i revisited the manual I found this:

    This is from the page 70 in the manual. So, unless there is some other section overruling this, the losses setting doesn't have any effect on the performance of the given unit, unless the order is Probe.
     
  5. Daz

    Daz Member

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    I must confess to still being a bit confused by this order.

    I'm wondering if it is another feature that has been disabled sometime in the past, just like the HQ command range feature.
    I don't know about you guys but I have not received a message to say that the casualty threshold has been reached for any unit other than those given probe orders.
    This would mean that the order is useless for moves, attacks, defense, delays, deny crossing, etc. and should be greyed out for these orders to avoid confusing players.

    Another thing that adds to the confusion in my opinion is the reference in the Game Manual that suggests, to me at any rate, that setting the losses to max will maximize the effort in an attack.
    "and press on regardless of casualties" (see image below).
    Interpreting this, its only logical to assume that it would also be the case for other orders, including defending.
    Losses-game-manual.jpg
     
    #5 Daz, Sep 21, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015
  6. Ripppe

    Ripppe Member

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    That's valid point Daz. Confusing. :) I do hope that the losses option does have an impact on how the units behave for example in attack or in defend. Could Dave share some insight of this matter?
     
  7. Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor

    Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor Panther Games Designer

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    Yeah I want that Dave fellow to share some insight on this and a whole range of matters too. ;)

    It's late here and I really need to go to bed. I'll endeavour to check the code tomorrow and get back to you.
     
  8. Ripppe

    Ripppe Member

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    It seems that this so called Dave has extensive knowledge about many things. ;)
     
  9. Wisomelon

    Wisomelon Member

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    But, such Dave is keeping the information for himself!!!Any answer of this question anywhere?
     
  10. Ripppe

    Ripppe Member

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    Wisomelon: Since my last post I have had the impression (by reading subsequent threads) that acceptable losses level indeed affects how much casualties a unit will endure or tries to endure. Unfortunately I'm not 100 % sure that this has come from the keyboard of Dave's.

    Maybe we will one day hear the ultimate truth. ;)
     
  11. Guy Miller

    Guy Miller Member

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    I'm sure Jason hasn't made the same mistakes I have made, but I have found that it is when I get sloppy with my order (fastest, quickest, unspecified, etc) that I end up with HQ or ART forces leading the way, and usually get ambushed or something horrible like that. Under most circumstancesI find that line units do lead the attack/move when given proper orders.

    Agreed on units running out of fortified positions. You can almost plan on enemy forces retreating and set up an ambush on the back side, which is fun, though, as has been stated, not very realistic.

    When CO2 gets the smoke feature (hint hint) this will help the overall retreat/advance situations.
     

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