Shell weight?

Discussion in 'CO2 - Game Support' started by Perturabo, Feb 1, 2015.

  1. Kurt

    Kurt Member

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    #21 Kurt, Mar 7, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
  2. Daz

    Daz Member

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    That was an excellent article, thanks Kurt.

    This was the most interesting part and confirmed my speculation.

    A notable point is that smaller shells are proportionally more effective than larger ones. However, the ratios aren't generally supported by the number of fragments derived from their distribution in Table 1. Of course larger shells can be fired further, their greater explosive content makes them more effective against more solid targets, if they hit them, and their blast effects are greater.

    An often asked question is about the effect of indirect artillery fire on tanks. One example helps, in 1944 the German IX Corps in Italy reported that artillery fire was the largest single cause of its tanks losses, it seems that this was usually from medium and heavy guns controlled by air OPs. The second largest source was German destruction of damaged or broken-down tanks to prevent their capture (mechanical reliability was not a feature of German tanks - but perhaps some of this was due to the Special Operations Executive's campaign of insaisissable sabotage). Other tanks, anti-tank, air attack and mines were well below the first two as the causes of tank losses.

    I already knew about the effect of artillery on German armour from another source, but was nice to see it confirmed again here.
    Of particular note though, was the fact that there are a tremendous amount of variables to be considered, and even today, no completely accurate data, especially on the effects of morale.
     
  3. jimcarravallah

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    The discussion centered on the explosive weight rather than shell weight being a primary determinant for damage. I haven't been into the Estab files since CO2 added the amount of data collected. But, part of your answer will revolve around whether the ammunition Estabs contain information on explosive weight in addition to shell weight. The remaining part will be whether the game engine takes that explosive weight into account at the time of calculating damage.

    The discussion indicated that damage calculations for CO2 should take into account angle of attack for direct fire and dispersion of both impact points and explosive force dissipation when calculating bombardment effects. Those effects have been modified by unit densities in the target area, visibility of the area by friendly units, terrain effects, and unit formation under CO1. The discussion was focused on what else to add to the Estab files to facilitate combat effects calculations.

    Again, part of the answer revolves around whether those factors are included in the Estabs.

    If included, the remaining part involves how that data would be used in the combat effects calculation.
     
  4. Daz

    Daz Member

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    I think it's best to just role play it out and not get too hung up on the effects of the different weights of munitions.
    In the average Command Ops scenario its unlikely to make much difference.
    But from a role play perspective, It would be better to use the heavier guns for entrenched/fortified positions within towns and villages to penetrate into cellars and bunkers.
    Because of the dispersion of troops entrenched into forest and open terrain, I don't think it would make much difference if you use light medium or heavy artillery, from a role playing perspective, in these situations.
     
  5. Kurt

    Kurt Member

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    A
    Agreed
     
  6. Kurt

    Kurt Member

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    Somewhere out there is an equation / algorithm that crunches all this data and gives the answers we seek , I found a Chinese military algorithm for arty effects but the site was in Mandarin !
     
  7. Perturabo

    Perturabo Member

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    Interesting. Are all tanks still invulnerable to arty in CO2? IIRC it was impossible to destroy even light tanks with arty in CO1.
     
  8. Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor

    Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor Panther Games Designer

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    Why don't you try it. Create a little test scenario with a single defend task and assign a single tank company to that side. Then have the other side assigned to a defend task and give it only some medium and heavy arty units. Then start the game and control the side with the arty. Fire away to your hearts content and see what the results are. Try shifting the objective from clear, to orchard to village to town to city and see what different effects you get.
     
  9. Artillerist

    Artillerist Member

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    Bump!
     
  10. Perturabo

    Perturabo Member

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    I've done some testing and it seems the effect caps of on 250kg and 35m radius and I'm not sure if it even represents that.
     
  11. Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor

    Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor Panther Games Designer

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    AFVs in theory are not immune from arty fire in CO2. I believe part of the difficulty in destroying AFVs with the latest release build stems from changes made to the code bringing in the fire. I reviewed this and made significant changes. The beta testers believe the arty fire is now much better.
     

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