Spotting Across Hedge/Wall/Bocage

Discussion in 'LnLT Rule Questions & Clarifications' started by gashlycrumb, Feb 5, 2016.

  1. gashlycrumb

    gashlycrumb Member

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    Hello, [10.1] Spotting states "Units in any open-type terrain are automatically spotted, even if the LOS is degraded by intervening terrain."

    1) If a unit is in an open hex adjacent to a wall (HoN Map 15-K6), such that a Spotting LOS to the unit crosses the wall, (such as from HoN Map 15-N7) is the unit behind the wall automatically spotted?

    2) If a unit is in an open hex adjacent to a hedge (HoN Map 16-G2) (HoN Map 15-K2), such that a Spotting LOS to the unit crosses the hedge, (such as from HoN Map 16-J3) (such as from HoN Map 15-M3) is the unit behind the hedge automatically spotted?
    Discovered that the HoN TEC is wrong for Low Crops - so 16-G2 is not open and therefore not auto spotted. (http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/normandy-tec-error.2462/). But what about for Map 15?

    3) If a unit is in an open hex adjacent to Bocage (HoN Map 16-H5), such that a Spotting LOS to the unit crosses the Bocage, (such as from HoN Map 16-J4) is the unit behind the hedge automatically spotted?
    Ok, found the answer to (3) in the HoN Module & Scenario Book, [10.5] Bocage - No

    So, I'm assuming yes for (1) & (2) - anyone confirm?


    Thanks!
     
    #1 gashlycrumb, Feb 5, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
  2. Stéphane Tanguay

    Stéphane Tanguay Moderator
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    Yes. The rule under 10.1 is not contradicted by module-specific rules for Wall and Hedges. Therefore, it apply.
     
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  3. gashlycrumb

    gashlycrumb Member

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    So on HoN Map 15, a unit in M4 automatically spots a unit in K2 behind the hedge, yes?

    Thanks!
     
  4. Stéphane Tanguay

    Stéphane Tanguay Moderator
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    M4 to K2, no, there is a building between these two but K4 to K2, yes
     
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  5. gashlycrumb

    gashlycrumb Member

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    Thanks! (and yeah, I meant M3)
     
  6. gashlycrumb

    gashlycrumb Member

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    One more question about spotting across hedges/walls. I'm playing 'Expected Company' on Map 15, and SSR #1 states that all bocage are hedges.

    4) If a German unit in 15-E4 attempts to Spot a Para unit in 15-C3 (Degrading Low Crops and Blocking Hedge Hexside), is the Para Spotted on a 3 or a 2?

    Thanks!
     
  7. Stéphane Tanguay

    Stéphane Tanguay Moderator
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    That would be board 14....

    In the situation you are describing, the hedge hexside is not blocking because hedge don't block LOS to a hex in which the hex forms a hexside (see note 1 on in TEC) i.e if you are standing right behind a hedge, said hedge does not block LOS to your hex. If you are one hex away from the hedge hexside then yes, the hedge block LOS.

    Since the Para unit is located in a low crops hex, it is considered in a degrading hex so 3 or less is required to spot it.
     
  8. gashlycrumb

    gashlycrumb Member

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  9. Carlos S. Olivares Pérez

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    Note that the objective number of 2 or 3 on a Spotting Attempt is independent of the unit that is making the Spotting. It only depends on the target hex itself. A Spotting Attempt over 14C3 will always be against a 3. The LOS will determine the modifiers, but not the objective number.
     
  10. Stéphane Tanguay

    Stéphane Tanguay Moderator
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    Nit-picking mode on. Actually, a leader could apply its LM to the spotting attempt so a Leader with a +1 LM would be spotting ennemy units in a degrading terrain with 4 or less. Nit-picking mode off.
     
  11. Carlos S. Olivares Pérez

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    Nit-picking mode on. I consider the LM as a modifier to the die roll, not to the objective number. Nit-picking mode off.
     
  12. Stéphane Tanguay

    Stéphane Tanguay Moderator
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    Well, yes, seen from this point of view, you are right !
     
  13. Stéphane Tanguay

    Stéphane Tanguay Moderator
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    All this being said, what would be the spotting number to be rolled for a unit standing behind bocage but in an otherwise open hex?
     
  14. Carlos S. Olivares Pérez

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    From my point of view, a hex with a bocage is blocking for spotting purposes if all enemy LOS cross the bocage. So the objective number would be 1 or 2. Appling the modifiers to the roll (LM for units with Leaders, - 2 for Scouts, + 1 for each degrading hex), this could mean:
    • a roll of 1, 2 or 3 for a Leader of LM = 1 (with the LOS not crossing degrading hexes),
    • a roll of 1, 2, 3 or 4 for a Scout without a Leader of LM = 1 (with the LOS not crossing degrading hexes),
    • a roll of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 for a Scout with a Leader of LM = 2 (with the LOS not crossing degrading hexes).
    Note, that a clear hex with a wall is a different case; in this case, the hex is automatically spotted, the wall does not add its degrading attribute. What do you think?
     
  15. Stéphane Tanguay

    Stéphane Tanguay Moderator
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    Hi Carlos!

    That would be my first take (making it equivalent to a blocking hex) but spotting is usually based on the terrain in the hex, not the hexside.

    I find it incredible that this question never occured to me in all my games...

    Now, as for the rest of your comment, you can't combine a scout modifier with the LM. Either the scout is doing the spotting, or the leader. The LM cannot be used for another unit spotting attempt. Well, at least, I,ve never seen used this way but must admidt the rules do not explictly forbid it.
     
  16. Carlos S. Olivares Pérez

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    I have this question and that answer in my notebook, so I think that somebody did it somewhere before.
    I would think that the LM apply to all the units in the hex.
     
  17. Jeff Lewis

    Jeff Lewis Designer

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    A Leader's LM does not affect a Scout (or any other unit's) Spotting attempt. If the Leader makes the SA, then his LM is applied.
     

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