Next Eastern Front scenario

Discussion in 'Command Ops Series' started by CapHillRat, Dec 28, 2014.

  1. CapHillRat

    CapHillRat Command Ops Scenario Designer

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    With Stalingrad released I am considering a new scenario. I will build it in CO2 when it is released in January.

    What do you think about Voronezh? Warsaw? Sevastopol?
     
  2. Daniel Cornell

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    how about: "into the City" battles for the southern half of the city? Really confused fighting for RR station and red square? First scenario looks great!
     
  3. WickedLiquids

    WickedLiquids Member

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    Maybe take the player through the entire series of battles for Karkov? You might get a lot of bang from one or two maps.
     
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  4. CapHillRat

    CapHillRat Command Ops Scenario Designer

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    both are good ideas. will take a look at both! thanks!
     
  5. john connor

    john connor Member

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    Would love Karkov. First choice Karkov, second choice Voronezh.
     
  6. CapHillRat

    CapHillRat Command Ops Scenario Designer

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    kharkov 41 looks promising. scale is right. not too big
     
  7. john connor

    john connor Member

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    But hang on! What about the das Reich or LAH parts of Prochorovka? Great source book by Nipe, I think. Super significant battle. Well balanced. Limited scale (focus on a single division over 3 or 4 days). No? Does no one crave a Kursk scenario?
    Peter
     
  8. CapHillRat

    CapHillRat Command Ops Scenario Designer

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    Peter thats good too. reading about it now
     
  9. CapHillRat

    CapHillRat Command Ops Scenario Designer

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    Prokhorovka - I started crafting map. This actually might be a pretty quick setup. Not full battle but a chunk of it and fun armor v. armor fighting. I am going to ignore the mounted ops element of the battle and focus on tanks. Plus 95th Guards counterattacks against LAH.
     
  10. john connor

    john connor Member

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    Sounds great, Chris. But I would have thought you could do the mounted ops as there wasn't any part of the battle (as far as I'm aware) where the mounted/unmounted ops aspect came into play, no? At least, not from the German side. (Can't remember who was in the bridgehead over the Psel (not LAH, so Totenkopf, maybe?) but they got over by bridging it, I think, not by dismounting and leaving their trucks behind). On the other hand, if you can find an isolable chunk with no mech infantry involved that would be nice too. But was there such a thing? I thought mech infantry were as much a part of it all as the tanks, no? And LAH is a mech infantry/panzer formation? (For which, I assume, an estab already exists in either the COTA variant, if that's not too early, or BFTB)?
    The 95th Guards attacks? Don't recall all the details now - was it around 12 July?

    How will you do the Soviet dug-in defences? With the same terrain type you used, for example, for the Tartar Ditch defence work?

    Well done, if you manage to do it. Be great to have a part of Kursk to play (arguably THE key part of Kursk).

    It won't work out as in reality, I assume - as the main reason for the decimation of Soviet armour (as I understand it) was that they were ordered to keep moving in the attack and hence were firing on the move, with terrible accuracy, against parked Axis panzers. Roughly. The game doesn't simulate that I guess.

    Thanks!

    Peter
     
    #10 john connor, Dec 28, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2014
  11. Joe98

    Joe98 Member

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    This game is at the operational level. Stalingrad was fought at the squad level.

    SSG made a game named "Korsun Pocket". Good battle to play as a wargame.

    If it is well balanced it can go either way right up till the last moment.
     
  12. CapHillRat

    CapHillRat Command Ops Scenario Designer

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    Hi Peter. I read on wikipedia that a Soviet Airborne unit rode atop the tanks that hit LAH (9th Guards Airborne according to entry). The 95th guards counterattacks occur on July 11th according to wikipedia. Obviously I am relying on one source for both tidbits. I think I will include the 95th and make the Guards Airborne an infantry unit so I don't have to modify the estab too much. I plan on using mechanized components for Soviet Tank Corps and German units.

    If you can point to a good online source for this I will use that also. I hate relying on one source and I don't have any books on the battle.

    I need to think about the physical soviet defenses. I might use the "broken" terrain layer for the minefields and just add a modification that slows a unit down. For the antitank ditch I will probably adjust the fortification terrain layer. The map is really coming along. I've had trouble matching the Hill #s in battle descriptions with Soviet maps. They are all off by a few meters but I think from the description I have a reasonable idea where things occurred. Google Earth has been very helpful in this regard. I will post a screenshot on my blog of map tonight. Its 49km by 48km, so there is some room to manuever and players aren't totally boxed into historical battlefield.
     
  13. john connor

    john connor Member

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    I've just looked at the Wikipedia article, Chris. Lots of info there and a few links. I have 2 books by George Nipe - 'Decision in the Ukraine' and 'Blood, Steel and Myth' (the latter, a huge book with lots of pics and maps and a detailed commentary, only deals with II SS PK at Prochorovka, and is a great volume, I think, though expensive). There must be others. If you're planning to make this for CO2 then you would certainly have time to buy a book or two, I would have thought, since we're unlikely to get CO2 until at least February now (my usual pessimistic guess). You might have it already, though, if you're developing for it?

    I'll let you know if I come across any on line resources.

    The map is always key for me. I much prefer busy maps with lots of features, rather than more schematic maps. For this reason I have preferred your non-urban scenarios because for me the Stalingrad maps (for example) always look relatively schematic with huge blocks representing types of urban terrain. That said, the new Stalingrad map is so beautiful that I just had to start playing the scenario this morning! It's just my preference, anyway - no comment on your map making skills! I love your Taganrog and Tartar Ditch maps most, for example, which to my eye look very like the standard of maps that both BFTB and COTA shipped with - the stock maps are extremely detailed, I think, really superb, and must have taken ages to perfect. Really look forward to seeing how Prochorovka comes out. Many thanks!
     
    #13 john connor, Dec 29, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2014
  14. CapHillRat

    CapHillRat Command Ops Scenario Designer

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    Hi Peter. I am not developing scenarios for CO2 beyond what I did for Westwall. I have seen the EF stuff though and it all looks great. I think you will like the Prokhorovka map. Its more like the Taganrog and Perekop maps you favor. Very little urban environment. As fighting was mostly west and north I actually cut half of Prokhorovka off and didn't represent it on the map. I should have the map done today. This is going so quickly, I think I will have it done this week. Well in advance of CO2 and will just push it live.
     
  15. fabgov

    fabgov Member

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    Kharkov is a great idea. One map but very different operational situations and equipment depending on the year. Kursk is a bit overdone IMO. It 'd be interesting to see some fluid situations where AFV fought at a range. Also, I prefer small scenarios (regimental/division scale).
    Tx for your great efforts!
     
  16. john connor

    john connor Member

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    Where is Kursk overdone, Fabgov? I'd like to check out any other games dealing with Prokhorovka . Especially at a level where it meant more than moving a couple of units a couple of hexes. Command Ops is a great level, I think (lowest unit a company, usually), to handle most battles. Kursk from 5 July to end is a big deal if you're trying to do nth, sth and centre - the whole bulge - but CO isn't the game for that - hence Chris's treatment of a small crucial part of the battle, about 3 days of fighting, I would think, max.

    I agree Karkov would be great too.
     
  17. fabgov

    fabgov Member

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    I meant as a campaign for wargames at the operational scale: GWITE, TOAW come to mind.
     
  18. john connor

    john connor Member

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    Ah. Thanks! I agree it will be intriguing to see AFVs fighting in a fluid situation, especially with the CO engine. The Soviet tanks at Prokhorovka were decimated because they were ordered to close with the Axis armour, in order to neutralise a perceived Axis advantage in optics and range, but this tactic led to them being unable to fire accurately as they closed, making them easy targets as they came in. Be interesting to see if the CO engine handles this well.
     

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