Ordinance Attack Question

[Jack Ruetty]

Had a Stug IIIG rotate its hull and fire. The To-Hit Modifier for Vehicle Rotated was +2. Looking at the OFT table I feel it should have been +1. Same idea for the Stug MG fire on the DFT table. Received a -2 Modifier for Vehicle Rotated. Feel it should have been -1. Bug?

Also the following happened later: Small arms attack versus a Shaken German Marder (which is opened top so susceptible to small arms fire) resulted in another Shaken result. Should the tank be abandoned?

Jack

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

You know your rules Jack!

1) I'm assuming that the Stug IIIG was not opp-firing at the time. The OFT modifier is written as Weapon Team or non-turreted vehicle pivoting to to fire outside covered arc (i.e. for Opportunity fire) or turreted vehicle pivoting chassis. Not moving to a new hex. It has generally been interpreted as being limited to opp fire situations for the WT and non-turreted vehicle and non-opp fire situations for turreted vehicle (there is a +1 for turreted weapon firing outside covering arc in opp fire situation).

What you are describing falls under the Mounted on a vehicle using assault movement, which is indeed a +2.

So in the end, non-turreted vehicle get +1 for pivoting in opp fire situation and +2 for pivoting in non opp fire situation, while turreted vehicle get +1 for pivoting turret to opp fire, +2 for firing after moving to a nex hex and only +1 if they only pivot in their hex to fire in a non-opp fire situation.

2) Yes, it should be abandonned

 

[Chris Merchant]

great job finding the bugs Jack

 

[Wiggum]

I just hope Tom can keep track of these

Maybe we should make a document for him with all the rule bugs we have found so its easier for him to keep track of them?

 

[Jack Ruetty]

Thanks Stephane. I have a couple questions.
1) An Assault Moving Tank (turreted or non-turreted) fires on a unit marked with a Move Marker. Does he incur a +2 Assault Movement Modifier and a +1 Target Marked with a Move Modifier for a total of +3 to his To Hit roll?

2) On his own impulse (not Opportunity Fire), a Stug IIIG pivots his hull and fires on a unit that has not moved this turn. He incurs +2 Modifier for pivoting in his hex which is essentially an Assault Move.

3) Using Opportunity Fire the same Stug III pivots his hull and fires on a unit marked with a Move Marker. He incurs +2 Modifier for pivoting in his hex which is essentially an Assault Move and a +1 Target Marked with a Move Modifier for a total of +3 to his To Hit roll?

Thanks for the help. Just trying to sort this out. Will probably have other questions on turreted vehicles.

Jack

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

Hi Jack!

1) Yes

2) Yes

3) No. +1 for pivoting in a opp fire situation (outside of covered arc) and +1 for firing at a moving target. I can see how my previous answer would lead you to believe so, thus I have edited it. And yes, it does seems to imply it is easier for a non-turreted vehicle to pivot and opp fire on a moving target than pivoting and firing at a moved target in a non-opp fire situation. Maybe you can help me here with the following sentence, english not being my first language ?

Weapon Team or non-turreted vehicle pivoting to to fire outside covered arc (i.e. for Opportunity fire) or turreted vehicle pivoting chassis. Not moving to a new hex

Can one understand that sentence in such a a manner that, everytime a non turreted-vehicle pivot without moving to a nex hex, it incurs a +1 penalty, opp fire or not? That would solve the apparent inconsistency (I kind of like this idea).

Bring your questions on; I love answering them (it takes all kind of people in the world )

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

Maybe we should make a document for him with all the rule bugs we have found so its easier for him to keep track of them?

When you press F3 and describe the problem, Tom numbers it and add it to a list of bugs he is maintaining

 

[Jack Ruetty]

Weapon Team or non-turreted vehicle pivoting to to fire outside covered arc (i.e. for Opportunity fire) or turreted vehicle pivoting chassis. Not moving to a new hex

I assume the phrase "Not moving to a new hex" refers to both targeted and non-targeted vehicles and therefore refers to AM and really has no place in this rule.

Therefore the only reference to non-turreted vehicles in the OFT is the phrase "Weapon Team or non-turreted vehicle pivoting to to fire outside covered arc (i.e. for Opportunity fire)." AM and AF takes care of itself with the +2 modifier. Is the phrase "(i.e. for Opportunity fire)" trying to imply the +1 is exclusively used for Op Fire or is that just one example of when it can be used? I am not sure it implies just Op Fire. Putting it all together I think your right. The +1 modifier applies to both Op fire and a unit firing in its own impulse.

I hope this makes sense!!

Jack

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

Yes it does!

 

[Jack Ruetty]

Stephane, if I understand you correctly:

Non-turreted vehicles
If they pivot their hull to fire either in an Op Fire situation or when firing in their own impulse receive a +1 modifier for pivoting.

Turreted vehicles
If they pivot their hull OR turn their turret to fire either in an Op Fire situation or when firing in their own impulse receive a +1 modifier for pivoting their hull or turning their turret.

Sure makes things easier for me to keep straight.

Is this what you think???
Jack

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

Let me think about it and I'll get back to you

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

We went for simplicity, and without contradicting the actual rules. Always add +1 when pivoting WT, vehcile turret or vehicle chassis, without moving to a new hex, no matter if it is for opp fire or not.

 

[Jack Ruetty]

Thanks Stephane for clarifying all that.