Welcome to the LnLP Forums and Resource Area

We have updated our forums to the latest version. If you had an account you should be able to log in and use it as before. If not please create an account and we look forward to having you as a member.

11th Schutzen brigade and why do I need it in my 11th Pz Div Estab?

Arkadiy

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2020
Messages
35
Points
8
Location
USA
@GoodGuy - the files aren’t password protected, nor do you have to register, regular browser download works, but they are quite large archives (the quality of scans is awesome though - I have no problem getting them them through picture to text converter, unless they are in cursive).

The rolls are not complete of course. not everything NARA has is scanned and published. And of course, documents are lost - German federal archives state that any documents below division level are not there, divisions that met their end at Stalingrad are not there, or certain time periods are missing (I was looking into the final stage of Tunisia fighting and division level docs just weren’t kept starting at certain point)

i wish more America and British documents were digitized (i am not aware of anything on UK side, and for US there is 1st ID and random stuff from the site you mentioned earlier). But that‘s such a shame, given that those very detail (down to regiment level) documents do exist.
 

GoodGuy

Member
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
435
Points
28
Age
52
Location
Cologne
i wish more America and British documents were digitized (i am not aware of anything on UK side, and for US there is 1st ID and random stuff from the site you mentioned earlier). But that‘s such a shame, given that those very detail (down to regiment level) documents do exist.
I think certain British documents can be found in the British national archive, but only some/selected docs are online. You need to know what you're looking for/narrow down the search, and then you can order copies, I think TMO mentioned that too, ages ago.

An example:

"RECORDS OF THE ROYAL SUSSEX REGIMENT"​

"The records of the War Office are a rich and voluminous source on all aspects of military history and are available for inspection at the Public Record Office, Ruskin Avenue, Kew (see M. S. Giuseppi Guide to the Contents of the Public Record Office, H.M.S.O. 1963, Volume 2, pp. 304-333). The Imperial War Museum, Department of Documents, in Lambeth Road, London SE1, holds material for the period from 1914 and is an important source of records for the First and Second World Wars."

"Held by: West Sussex Record Office, not available at The National Archives,

Creator:
35th Regiment of Foot, 1701-1881
107th Regiment of Foot, 1862-1881
Royal Sussex Regiment, 1881-1966
The Queen's Regiment, 1966-1992"


So, it's actually possible to track down documents of British forces/operations/particular units, but some have to be either viewed/copied in person, or you have to order printed/scanned copies, and I remember reading a note on some British gov website that they charge hefty prices (or deny requests), if you don't narrow down the search and copy/scan job. :D.
 

GoodGuy

Member
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
435
Points
28
Age
52
Location
Cologne
But that‘s such a shame, given that those very detail (down to regiment level) documents do exist.
I stumbled over a website that held daily reports of US units, and I found the daily AARs of several towed AT gun units (AT Bns/Coys) which performed indirect fire missions - sometimes on a daily basis - starting in autumn 1944, aiding US artillery units. I think I created a thread on here, a few weeks after I read those detailed reports, as that was an interesting find. I'll see if I can find the links.
There are quite a few documents out there, outside NARA and other institutions, where history buffs actually went to archives, digitized stuff, and put them online. Finding them can be quite a job, tho. :p Other websites are even connected to the Army's historical branch or affiliated sites (Museums, NGOs etc.).
 

Arkadiy

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2020
Messages
35
Points
8
Location
USA
I think certain British documents can be found in the British national archive, but only some/selected docs are online. You need to know what you're looking for/narrow down the search, and then you can order copies

So, it's actually possible to track down documents of British forces/operations/particular units, but some have to be either viewed/copied in person, or you have to order printed/scanned copies, and I remember reading a note on some British gov website that they charge hefty prices (or deny requests), if you don't narrow down the search and copy/scan job. :D.

yes, in either US or UK case it’s not a matter of not having the source material, but rather not having the source digitized. Bovington tank museum also does research (on armored units) for a hefty fee, and it makes perfect sense - someone has to spend time, and human labor is very expensive (at least in certain countries). NARA also has Italian archives - same deal, need to know what you want to order a scanned copy.

@Grognerd - sorry for hijacking your thread.
 

GoodGuy

Member
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
435
Points
28
Age
52
Location
Cologne
German federal archives state that any documents below division level are not there, divisions that met their end at Stalingrad are not there, or certain time periods are missing (I was looking into the final stage of Tunisia fighting and division level docs just weren’t kept starting at certain point)
On top of that, the military archive of the federal archive resides in South Germany, Freiburg im Breisgau, it's right East (37 km) of the French City of Colmar, some 50 km from the borders of Switzerland and Liechtenstein. It would be a trip of like 434 km (linear distance 323 km). If it would be in Berlin, cool, I'd just take a plane and grab a bunch of scans (they scan documents/retreive scans and burn DVDs for a halfway reasonable price), quite a few documents seem to be digitized already, these days. But since I am in West Germany, I'd have to book a hotel room in Freiburg, get the things I need, get some sleep and then rush back home on the Autobahn the next day or the day after. A few ppl actually do that, they tell their stories about their trips to the SE corner of Germany to get their docs for research, in a bunch of military history forums. :D
EDIT: I heard some of the staff at Freiburg is actually willing to give some advice, eg. if you try to find an answer to a particular question, but in most cases you need to be thoroughly prepared and really know what you want.
 
Last edited:

AndyM

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
9
Points
1
Location
USA
ROTFLMAO... been there, done that, and lost years from my life researching and researching and.... time sucked good. Thank you folks for taking me back to a time and for remembering.
 
Top