50s Cold War

[HarpyEagle]

Hi everyone, this is actually a continuation of a thread about a module I had been working on for CO:BftB waaay back. I kind of left it hanging and wanted to give it a bit of closure, but I couldn't find the old thread on the matrix games forums. I... actually don't know if CO2 has the same kind of module creation tools that CO:BftB did, but if it does I figure what I wrote might still be interesting for someone. Also who knows, maybe someone here remembers that old thread. I guess it doesn't hurt to post.

The module originally was about a fictional confrontation between US and Soviet forces in the late 1950s/early 1960s The historical justification for this conflict was... pretty shaky to say the least. I started thinking about this module again recently, out of the blue, and I've realized that the way I had been going about this module was incredibly stupid.

What I should have done, was set the module as a conflict between two fictional countries, one NATO-aligned and one Soviet aligned. This would have solved many of my problems.

First, since the countries would be fictional, I would now have leeway to handle the fact that I can't always find complete information on US and Soviet TOEs and OOBs. Sure I may want to base TOEs and OOBs on ones historically used by NATO or WP countries, but I wouldn't be under as much pressure to be "accurate" and would also have the freedom to create TOEs and OOBs purely on the basis of being interesting. Part of the reason I gave up on the module was because the amount of fudging I was doing in this regard was beginning to border on the ridiculous.

Also no longer would I have to deal with the very... sketchy justification of the previous setting and historical backdrop to the module, but would have a lot more freedom here as well.

Lastly I would be able to sidestep the issue I was having of not being able to settle on which time period I wanted. I could do something like set the module in the 70s and still say that the two sides are fighting with 50s technology, but be able to sprinkle in some 60s or even 70s era equipment if I wanted, and depending on what is possible with the engine.

Anyways, thanks for the assistance people provided back then, if any of you are still around. If I can find the old module files, I think I might just return to this module sometime, perhaps once I get a break from school. Cheers!

 

[Kurt]

Sounds interesting , not sure how you would represent helicopter transport / gunships though , in the future this will of course be an inevitable development .

 

[ioncore]

Many years ago, in a galaxy far away, I was trying to model such a late-50s encounter using TOAW and a 1km-scaled Coy/Bn scenario. The level (1km hex, 6 hours, Coy/Bn) was pretty close to what CmdOps is about and it was really fun. Imagine Soviet Heavy Tank Division (BTW for some reason most wargames/designers miss the fact that Soviets had Heavy Tank Divisions additionally to regular Tank Divisions in 1957-1965) storming the US Pentomic Division, US hammering Soviet tank columns with tactical nukes, half of the map covered in contaminations etc. So yes, such a game for CmdOps would be absolutely cool and fun to design and play.

But here's the point. I'd say late-50s/early-60s conflict is very difficult to portray realistically in CmdOps, because both sides would rely heavily on nuclear weapons. Pentomic Division concept, tactical nukes all over the place - you know, all that 50s-era flavour. Sadly CmdOps lacks nuclear warfare modelling, both in terms of yield/impact and contamination/landscape effects. It's airstrike model is also far from being ideal (interdiction? bridge bombing? recon?) to model any global post-WW2 conflict.

PS There's another interesting fact. In real life, there seem to be no signs that Soviet Army planned any full-scale offensives into European soil until early 60s. Ten years ago I spoke with one of the dedicated researchers of the WP/NATO military planning. Although archives and all the actual plans are still classified in Russia, there is a lot of indirect signs indicating Soviet planning switched from defensive to offensive only in early 60s (likely around 1962-1964), when satellite WP states and their armies became more or less capable. Until then, Soviet Army in Europe would most likely engage with a strategical defence in mind - at least until more divisions are transported from the Soviet mainland.

 

[Perturabo]

Many years ago, in a galaxy far away, I was trying to model such a late-50s encounter using TOAW and a 1km-scaled Coy/Bn scenario. The level (1km hex, 6 hours, Coy/Bn) was pretty close to what CmdOps is about and it was really fun. Imagine Soviet Heavy Tank Division (BTW for some reason most wargames/designers miss the fact that Soviets had Heavy Tank Divisions additionally to regular Tank Divisions in 1957-1965) storming the US Pentomic Division, US hammering Soviet tank columns with tactical nukes, half of the map covered in contaminations etc. So yes, such a game for CmdOps would be absolutely cool and fun to design and play.

But here's the point. I'd say late-50s/early-60s conflict is very difficult to portray realistically in CmdOps, because both sides would rely heavily on nuclear weapons. Pentomic Division concept, tactical nukes all over the place - you know, all that 50s-era flavour. Sadly CmdOps lacks nuclear warfare modelling, both in terms of yield/impact and contamination/landscape effects. It's airstrike model is also far from being ideal (interdiction? bridge bombing? recon?) to model any global post-WW2 conflict.

PS There's another interesting fact. In real life, there seem to be no signs that Soviet Army planned any full-scale offensives into European soil until early 60s. Ten years ago I spoke with one of the dedicated researchers of the WP/NATO military planning. Although archives and all the actual plans are still classified in Russia, there is a lot of indirect signs indicating Soviet planning switched from defensive to offensive only in early 60s (likely around 1962-1964), when satellite WP states and their armies became more or less capable. Until then, Soviet Army in Europe would most likely engage with a strategical defence in mind - at least until more divisions are transported from the Soviet mainland.

It would be totally awesome. IMHO 50s/60s are the most fascinating part of the Cold War.