Combat Results - Types of Units

Discussion in 'World At War 85 Series' started by Alexandre Leal, Feb 29, 2020.

  1. Alexandre Leal

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    Rule 10.7 determines the result of hits based on the type of unit the target belongs to, which the rules establish as 4. To my surprise none of which is aircraft or air units (as opposite to ground units). The 4th is CAS but seems tailored specifically for CAS.

    Helicopters are mentioned in a Note under 10.7.1 Results vs Ground Units, but the only times they are treated as ground units is when they have landed, and possibly when NOE in 0 heigh obstacle level terrain.

    And also mentioned in 10.7.3 if they are transport units, and mostly to rule the indirect effect of hits on their passengers.

    Which means there is no specific mechanic that details the effects of Combat on aircraft, namely helicopters.
    Although I can adjudicate or interpret 10.7.1 as being the default combat result to combat units, ground or otherwise, it would be great if there was a specific mention to aircraft that either merits a specific designation as a type of unit or specifically identified as applying the same rules as ground units (10.7.1).
     
  2. Starman

    Starman Member

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    CAS Aircraft have to first avoid interception and then are placed in the target hex where they face Anti-Aircraft fire.

    10.6.1 Anti-Aircraft Fire Details advantages and disadvantages of different weapon types, AA vs non AA and when they apply.
    Anti-Aircraft FP dice (blue AP or HE FP dice) execute Direct Fire versus Flying and Hovering Helicopters, and CAS counters as usual, with all applicable modifi ers below. However, a unit with black or orange FP dice may only attack Flying and Hovering Helicopters and CAS counters up to its Effective.........

    CAS
    4.2 Anti-Aircraft Fire

    The enemy may now make one Anti-Aircraft attack on the CAS counter with any eligible unit within Range and LOS (this is a form of Opportunity Fire). Additional eligible enemy units within Range and LOS may contribute their fi re to the attack, but by adding one FP dice for each contributing unit to a maximum of +2 FP dice. Resolution is covered in the Direct Fire Action (See 10.0 and note 10.6.1).

    7.6 Actions


    Anti-Aircraft Fire by inactive units against Helicopters, which is triggered by Helicopter movement; or triggered by CAS counters being placed on the map. Anti-Aircraft Fire is a form of Direct Fire.

    Helicopter
    9.71 Flying

    For the purposes of Opportunity Fire, the player traces the unit’s path across the map.
    It is considered to be fl ying 2 levels above any Terrain obstacle height in each hex it enters, so enemy ground units may move into its hex but may not Assault a fl ying Helicopter.

    9.7.2 Nap-of-Earth

    For the purposes of Opportunity Fire, the unit moves like a ground unit, from hex to adjacent hex.

    If a NOE Helicopter is in a hex where the unit and obstacle heights are equal. It is treated as a ground unit. Enemy ground units may not enter its hex unless they Assault the NOE Helicopter.

    9.7.4 Landed

    For the purposes of LOS and Assault, a Landed Helicopter unit is treated as a ground unit.

    Page 48 Design Note
    : Why fly? Fly at Nap-ofEarth? Hover? Land? Flying is the most efficient yet most vulnerable mode of Helicopter movement. A flying Helicopter is visible at altitude so most terrain types do not block LOS of any enemy Anti-Aircraft fire. Flying at Nap-of-Earth effectively limits a Helicopter’s movement to twelve or fewer hexes, but allows it to take advantage of terrain as if it were a very fast ground unit.
     
  3. Alexandre Leal

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    Starman... I was referring to "types of units" under rule 10.7, not making an exhaustive list of each and every time aircraft was mentioned in the rules. As you quoted Helicopters are sometimes treated as ground units for the specific purpose of a rule, as they are NOT ground units.
    If they are not ground units, and if they are not transports then in which category would you insert them for the purpose of 10.7. The rules should be clear about this, and have a specific entry for aircraft OR change the designation of the first "type" of units for the purpose of 10.7 to also encompass Aircraft (no CAS, so in this case and so far, Helicopters).
     
  4. Starman

    Starman Member

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    That wasn't clear , it read as though "there is no specific mechanic that details the effects of Combat on aircraft, namely helicopters."
    Not no mention in 10.7

    The description of 10.7. 1 should probably be 10.7.1 Results versus Ground and Air units.
    In that section it does note Helicopters are one step units.
     
  5. Alexandre Leal

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    That sentence was referring to "Rule 10.7 determines the result of hits based on the type of unit the target belongs to, which the rules establish as 4. To my surprise none of which is aircraft or air units (as opposite to ground units). The 4th is CAS but seems tailored specifically for CAS."

    I also mentioned that helicopters were referred to in a note under 10.7.1 BUT with no specific context. In theory that could apply to those cases when the rules specifically treat helicopters as ground units, as mentioned above by both me and you. There should be a specific provision that applies to air units, like you exemplified by "10.7.1 Results versus Ground and Air units"
     
  6. Keith Tracton

    Keith Tracton Member
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    Hi Gentlemen, thanks for your eagle eyes and input, you are both correct!

    Starman: I will clarify 10.7.1's section header as "10.7.1 Results versus Ground and Helicopter units." "Air units" would include CAS and that has its own section.

    Alexandre: I will also amend the Ground units listing in the categories to "Ground units and Helicopters" to match the 10.7.1 header above.

    Thanks, again!!
     
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  7. Alexandre Leal

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    That's great Keith. Thanks.
     
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  8. Keith Tracton

    Keith Tracton Member
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    Sure thing, Alexandre!
     

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