Fallschirmjäger range question

[DougOSU]

Just a Heroes of Normandy design question here. Has there ever been an explanation of why the fallschirmjäger squad’s range is only 3? I know FJs had a relatively high SMG/rifle ratio, so that might be an explanation - but they also had a higher saturation of MGs in a platoon, so I think that would more than make up for a lack of bolt-action rifles for FP at range. Maybe it’s just a balance issue, since they have a high firepower and high morale. I just can’t wrap my head around an FJ squad having just half the range of a typical 1-6-4 SS squad.

I understand they should be extremely powerful up close due to their saturation of automatic weapons. What would make sense to me would probably have been to give them a FP of 2, maybe even with the A superscript for a bonus against adjacent units, and then given them the black boxed 3 range so they could still have a FP of 1 at a range of 6. But who knows; maybe that would have screwed game balance up and I wouldn’t want that. The game plays great as is. I’m just curious.

 

[Captain Darling]

Hey DougOSU,
Good post, funnily my mate and I have discussed this several times.
An early/mid war FJ section included rifles and MG34s with maybe an MP38/40 for the NCO
A late War FJ section was armed much the same excepting MG34s became MG42s and with FG42s being included.
These weapons would indicate a range similar to line sections armed with the same weapons (albeit in different ratios).
They should as you say get A and M capabilities depending on the era.
We’d also like to see for the parachute drop scenarios new counters with reduced abilities for ‘x’ turns until weapons containers could be accessed as they would be fighting with pistols and grenades up to then.
I look forward to informed replies to your query!
Great start on the forum!
Cheers!

 

[Captain Darling]

Any takers for this question from the LnL design team?

 

[DougOSU]

Pending an explanation from someone with involvement in design, here’s the best I can come up with. In some of the Normandy engagements, especially immediately after the allied drops, I’ve read that the low-on-ammo FJ units would consolidate all their rifle ammunition for use with their machine guns, leaving the men to fight only with their 9mm weapons. This would obviously leave them with far shorter range, and the only men with long range would be those with an MG attached. This partially makes sense in LnLT because the squads and half squads with an MG token would still have good range with that MG.

I don’t think this explanation works very well though. From what I remember, the standard explanation from LnL is that an MG token represents an extra MG, beyond the one MG a typical squad would already have - or in other words, the squad MG’s FP is already accounted for in the squads base FP. Plus I’m not sure how common this practice was of gathering up all rifle ammo for the MGs.

 

[Rydo]

Pending an explanation from someone with involvement in design, here’s the best I can come up with. In some of the Normandy engagements, especially immediately after the allied drops, I’ve read that the low-on-ammo FJ units would consolidate all their rifle ammunition for use with their machine guns, leaving the men to fight only with their 9mm weapons. This would obviously leave them with far shorter range, and the only men with long range would be those with an MG attached. This partially makes sense in LnLT because the squads and half squads with an MG token would still have good range with that MG.

I don’t think this explanation works very well though. From what I remember, the standard explanation from LnL is that an MG token represents an extra MG, beyond the one MG a typical squad would already have - or in other words, the squad MG’s FP is already accounted for in the squads base FP. Plus I’m not sure how common this practice was of gathering up all rifle ammo for the MGs.

Hi, i'm no ln'l designer so i don't know if you will still care about me but i think i can came up with the solution of this enigma. To do this i'm gonna do some steps to keep everything organized and dive into the ln'l history.

1 - The 3-3-4 FJ first appeared back into Band of Heroes ( old name for a portion of what is today Heroes of Normandy ). Before that only Forgotten Heroes and maybe Anzac attack were released, so no ww2 era stuff for ln'l yet was made.

2 - The only extra thing the games before BoH had was the red box under movement ( what is it? question to test you ). The A and M superscript on the Firepower number came later with the first expansion of BoH wich was Swift and Bold that added the british paras and the ability of those units to be more efficient in melee and at close range.

In conclusion i think the main reason was to not overburden the system wich was fairly new at the time ( BoH was the second big game ) and also because simply those rules came later and remaking all FJ just to upgrade them was seem as unnecessary and for the ln'l of the time ( wich was small and barely able to deliver more than 500 games at a time ) it was technically not possible.

Also there should have been balance and design decisions, but to me my theory is pretty solid.

For exact clarifications one should ask mark walker or eventually Jeff Lewis.

Hope to have helped a little.

 

[Captain Darling]

Thanks Rydo!

Sorry but we have yet to determine the reason FJ sections only have a range of 3 compared to the Infantry range of 6 when both were basically armed with KAR98s and MG34/42s (but in different mixes).

Understand the A and M modifiers were introduced later but with the revamp/relaunch of the system this should have been looked at (along with scenario balancing).

Cheers!

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

Could this reflect tactical approach by the FJ? Maybe they prefered to go at it at close range? Same question could be asked for the Russian Guards no?

 

[Rydo]

Thanks Rydo!

Sorry but we have yet to determine the reason FJ sections only have a range of 3 compared to the Infantry range of 6 when both were basically armed with KAR98s and MG34/42s (but in different mixes).

Understand the A and M modifiers were introduced later but with the revamp/relaunch of the system this should have been looked at (along with scenario balancing).

Cheers!

I think the weapons they were armed with is took into consideration only partially. The thing that to me was considered more was how fierce those units were in close combat and their aggressiveness.

In asl an fj squad is 5-4-8 while a first line is 4-6-7.
In ln'l an fj squad is 3-3-4-6 while a first line is a 1-6-4-5.

To me the idea is that the designers ( in both games ) wanted us to feel the difference between the two types of units regardless of their overall equipment, so that you can tell the difference in a more tangible way.

At least thats what i think, what do you think?

Cheers!

PS: to be honest we may be asking all of his while those question may have been already answered in the Line of Fire magazines ln'l released in the past. I'll tell you that because in the ones i own there is a detailed description of all units involved in vietnam and the reasoning behind the numbers.
I can't help more as i have 4 numbers out of 15. You?

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

I've checked the table of content of all Line of Fire and the two LNLT Compendium dedicated to WW2 and did not see anything about this

 

[Captain Darling]

Thanks for your input guys!

BTW I have the same issue with the ASL rating, was the LnL one influenced by it???

 

[Rydo]

Thanks for your input guys!

BTW I have the same issue with the ASL rating, was the LnL one influenced by it???

In asl the fj have a range of 4 but can fire at extended range to 8 at 2.5 fp.

I don't think they were based over asl, but maybe that?


Those appeared on vae victis issue 57 in 2004 while Band of Heroes appeared on 2005.

But i suppose BoH was already in the making...to note that here the fj are M capable, a thing that appeared later in ln'l.

Maybe it was vae victis that inspired the M and fj numbers? We'll never know...