Peiper race for the Meuse feedback

[Mehring]

Hi, after playing CotA extensively several years ago and dabbling in the original BotB game I just got the Commander Pack and started a few games. First to finish was Peiper's historical scenario. I'm the sort of person to comment more on what didn't work for me so the criticism of my comments should not be taken to mean that I didn't greatly enjoy the game or am not impressed by the system. A few points then-

Scenario Specific

1. I understand KG Knittel was equipped with Puma ACs instead of (perhaps as well as?) the 20mm ACs of the same series. According to numerous sources several, usually 3 are cited, were trapped and fought with Peiper near La Gleize. I don't find them in the scenario though, have I missed them?

2. Some sources attribute SPW 251/16 flame half tracks to Peiper's command. Perhaps a false memory but I seem to recall seeing a photo of some left abandoned, again, near La Gleize. Again, I couldn't find these.

General Points

3. I do not remember in older iterations, inadvertently selecting your entire OB when you select the highest HQ and down arrow once, thus overriding all pre-existing orders to subordinate commands. Of all my gripes, I find this the most unhelpful development and fail to see what good purpose this could possibly serve.

4. I think it is probably too easy to route engineers with arty before they can blow bridges. Surely they should take checks to see if they will blow the bridge they have primed when they come under heavy arty fire.

5. As in the old game, support units like ATGs, AA, and IGs stay forever in reserve during an attack, usually out of sight if you set a FUP behind a LOS obstacle, and can only be micromanaged into action. Surely, when attacking infantry encounter tanks, for example, the commanding HQ would attempt to maneuver ATGs at its disposal into a firing position, or support guns/halftracks against a stubborn obstacle that has to be cleared. If such behavior cannot be coded, would it not be better to treat such units as indirect fire for orders purposes, so as not to cause a re-plan when the player moves them?

6. If there is terrain that is impenetrable to vehicles- and there should be- surely mot/mech infantry should be able to dismount and enter it. Soldiers seldom fought in or from their transports.

7. Many times, it seems when using arty supporting attack only option, I'm seeing attached mortar units acting as vanguard or, as support fillers, right up in the front line. This shouldn't happen.


Think those were the main points.

 

[Kurt]

Hi Mehring , I can only comment on no.6 . Mounted ops are as we speak being developed , hopefully we will have that active this year .

 

[Mehring]

Hi Kurt, thanks for reply. I've seen mounted ops mentioned here and there, but is there a thread somewhere with some detailed information? Still working my way round the forum and I can't find a PvP section either.

Another point came to mind which I've added to my first post.

 

[Kurt]

Have a look on page 6 of " feature requests " John Connor started a thread about mounted ops

 

[Mehring]

Thanks.

 

[Pieter]

Hi Mehring,

RE 1: There are no Puma's in the scenario, KG Knittel does have 3x SdKfz234/3 (it has a 7,5 cm gun in an open topped structure).
RE 2: In the scenario, Peiper does command 3/SS PzPi Bn 1, with Sd Kfz 251/7 ( the engineer version of the 251) and infantry flamethrowers. There are no Sd Kfz 251/16s.

The OOB's in the scenario's are built from the units available in the Estabs. These are more or less 'generic' pionier coys, recons coys etc. When designing the scenarios, we tried to be as accurate as possible.To do so we've added dozens of units to the Estabs, sometimes even for specific units of specific divisions (e.g. a unit called '9th mixed IG Coy/Pz Gren Regt 60'). Still, it is impossible to be 100% accurate for every vehicle in every unit (though I dare say we came pretty close) , especially since sources are often missing or contradicting each other .
If you're interested in this stuff (and clearly you are), open up a Bulge scenario in the Scen Maker and take a look at the Estabs tab. It has a list of all units available in the BFTB Estab.

Pieter

 

[Mehring]

Hi Pieter, thanks for getting back. I can see a lot of work has gone into the OoBs and from years of gaming am aware of the problems researching and representing non-standardised units and those that have already suffered losses before entering the scope of the scenario being designed. That said, assuming that there isn't a limit on available estab slots, there's always room for improvement if the time and inclination are there.

I can't confirm that the 251/16s were present with Peiper but the Pumas, I know they are generally over-reported, almost definitely were with Knittel and Peiper, and their 50mm medium velocity MA would make more than a cosmetic difference. Eye candy for sure, but looking over the red Devils over Arnhem OoB the captured Humber AC is missing from Graebner's recon batallion. As you'll see from my comment elsewhere on the Char B2 Fts, I like stuff to work but to do that it has first to be there. Not saying it's a game breaker if it isn't, just it would be nice.

 

[john connor]

You can amend the estabs and the scenarios yourself, Mehring, if you can make more accurate versions, then post the results. It's not so hard to do. That may be the only way to achieve your goal, as I believe most development at the official level is now focused elsewhere.

Peter

 

[Mehring]

I'll have a go, thanks.

 

[simovitch]

We really had some top notch guys developing the BFTB estabs and OOB's. They were regulars on the feldgrau and axis history forums back in the day. I think we have what would amount to the most accurate representation of the Ardennes campaign OOB's available in any wargame.