Abandoning SWs

[MCabido]

As I understand, weapons can only be abandoned in the operations phase. On page 31 it is stated that "Any GO MMC, excluding WTs, or eligible SMCs can pick up an unpossessed SW present in the hex if the hex contains no enemy unit. Friendly GO units in the same hex can also swap SWs.".

I suppose an unit can't abandon a SW in the rally phase, since nothing is stated about it; or, if it can, we can't do it and pick it up by a GO unit in the same phase, what would render the GO units swapping rule futile. But, in the manual it is stated that a GO or Shaken unit abandons a SW if it leaves the hex. Isn't it allowed for a shaken unit to abandon it without moving, so that it is picked up by a GO in the operations phase using MPs or, at least, in the next rally phase? As it is, if the unit is shaken and we have no leader available, we'll have to move the shaken unit just to "unlock" the SW. Well, that is my understanding, at least, but I may be wrong.

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

As the rule stands now, units in GO can drop SW in the Rally phase (see one of the bullets under 1.6) without moving, or abandom them in the operation phase by moving out of their hex. Shaken units can only do the latter. In short, you drop in the rally phase, you abandon in the operation phase. Abandonning requires you to move out of the hex and shaken units cannot drop their SW.

As for picking up SW, GO units can do so in the Rally phase at no cost, or the operation phase at a cost of 2MP. Shaken units can never pick up a SW.

GO units can swap SW with other GO unit only in the Rally phase.

 

[MCabido]

So, as I understand, if I have a SW with a shaken unit (no leader available to rally) and want to transfer the SW to a GO unit, I would have to move the shaken unit out of the hex. Wouldn't it be advisable to allow a shaken unit to drop the weapon in the rally phase too, even if preventing a GO unit of picking it up in the same phase, in order to not go around the GO units swapping rule? The fact that a shaken unit can dismantle a SW to leave the hex, but not drop it while staying is a little odd. Is there a reason for preventing shaken units from dropping a SW?

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

Shaken units cannot dismantle SW in any phase.

Originally, shaken units could never drop/abandon/dismantle SW. I cannot tell you why because I'm not the original designer but I suppose those guys are simply too shaken to do anything coherent. But this resulted in shaken units being stuck to their unmovable assembled SW, actually staying at the front, possibly under fire, instead of retreating because they could not dismantle their SW and move. Eventually, the possibility for shaken (and GO) units to abandon their SW in the operation phase was introduced, which kind of corrected this seemingly absurd situation.

Myself, I would simply have allowed Shaken units to dismantle their SW in any phase and be done with it. This way, shaken units would never give up their SW (as this was the case originally) but they would not be stuck in place by assembled SW. Instead of this, they can now swap their SW with GO units by abandonning them with a somewhat circonvulated mechanic.

 

[MCabido]

I'm a little confused here Stéphane. In 1.6.1, second paragraph, it is stated, at the end: "Shaken MMCs/SMCs can dismantle - but not assemble - a tripod SW, following the same rules as above."
Maybe I got something wrong here.
I agree that, maybe, forcing them to keep the weapon could be the way to go, but if they can abandon it, it would be reasonable to let them drop it too.

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

Yep, you are right, I forgot about this . In v5.0, they could not dismantle their SW. In v5.1, rev 65, they were allowed to do so in the Rally Phase only (and, unfortunately, the text was not adjusted under 3.0). In v5.1 rev 73, they were allowed to do so even in the operation phase.

As the rules stand now, they can abandon but not drop their SW. I agree that, if they can abandon them, it makes sense to allow them to drop their SW. But then, why not simply allow them to swap their SW with other units? At this point though, there would be almost no difference between shaken and GO units in terms of managing SW...

Frankly, if it was only me, I would not allow shaken units to drop/abandon/pick up/assemble SW, only to dismantle them, and only in the Rally phase. GO unit could assemble/dismantle/swap SW in the Rally phase only but could pick them up in either phase. They could not drop/abandon them (unless exceeding carrying capacity). This way, you reduce the number of "Guys, we just dropped a MG for you to pick up later" situations a bit The whole "Let's drop a fucntionning SW" thing seems a bit silly to me , especially when it is used to actually exchange SW between units.

 

[MCabido]

Frankly, if it was only me, I would not allow shaken units to drop/abandon/pick up/assemble SW, only to dismantle them, and only in the Rally phase. GO unit could assemble/dismantle/swap SW in the Rally phase only but could pick them up in either phase. They could not drop/abandon them (unless exceeding carrying capacity). This way, you reduce the number of "Guys, we just dropped a MG for you to pick up later" situations a bit The whole "Let's drop a fucntionning SW" thing seems a bit silly to me , especially when it is used to actually exchange SW between units.

I agree that it seems artificial the "we just dropped a MG for you to pick up later" thing; yet, the shaken unit would still be stuck in the operational phase in which they got shaken if they can only dismantle it in the rally phase. Perhaps adding some randomness like "trying to drop or to abandon" in order to prevent having total control of a shaken unit as part of a more comprehensive plan.

Well, I didn't give much thought to it yet. This is just a rushed suggestion. I thank you anyway for clarifying those points.

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

I'm fine with having a just shaken unit wait until the next admin phase to dismantle its SW; it is not even a whole turn.. But I'd also be fine with them being able to dismantle in the operation phase too (as is the case now). As I said, it is the drop/abandon thing that seems strange.