Attack Abandoned

[Rake]

I am trying to play the 101st AB scenario from HttR (to be clear, this is CO2). I keep getting "XXX has abandoned it Attack mission - lack of time". I've searched the forums using a keyword search and I haven't really found an answer as to why this is happening.

This is happening at the beginning of the scenario when there are no orders delay. I first gave the 1st Battalion attack order with multiple waypoints. I also gave the 2nd Batt. an attack order into Veghel with only the FUP prior to the attack. I got the attack abandoned message for both of these attacks. I had saved the start of the game, so I went back and changed first Battalion to a move order and the message went away. But, with the 2nd Battalion's attack, nothing is happening. I've tried moving the FUP around, not specifying an FUP, but 2nd Batt. doesn't seem to want to move. I've waited several minutes after the start to reissue the order, but still get the message.

In continuing play, I have been saving the game after each new order and have found no rhyme or reason why this happens. At first, I thought it might have to do with multiple waypoints preceding an attack, but I have been able to get some orders through with two or three waypoints.

i am just coming back to the game after a long time away. I really love the concept of this game and really, really want to like it, but this is the reason I gave it up two - three years ago. I had hoped this had been fixed in the meantime. I downloaded the Base Game from the website a couple of weeks ago, so I hope this is the latest build.

Any ideas?

 

[Keydet]

I have encountered this as well. Sorry to say I always brushed it off and made a different order. Then failed to do my duty and ask about it. Let me check behind the developer curtain.

 

[Rake]

I tried brushing it off, but it happened with 4 or 5 units before the first attck at Son even got rolling. It was just getting annoying having to stop and save with every new order in anticipation of this.

 

[Keydet]

I checked on the developers side and found discussion centered on the impact of orders delay. Been a long time since I touched a HTTR scenario. But am sure there are not any Allied orders delay in those scenarios. Someone else on the development side will have to give real insight into this. My working attitude about anomalies in CO2 is to accept these as unintentional fog of war design features. Both my experience on active duty and my observations from my military history studies show the most bizarre in-explicable things happen in combat regularly. Such things in real life can't be wished away, so such things are acceptable in simulations. That of course doesn't mean this shouldn't be addressed. It's way overdue.

 

[Rake]

For certain, there are no orders delays with reinforcements, at least in this scenario. The first two times I saw this was right after starting the game. It happened with orders for 1/501 and 2/501 - the scenario briefing says that "Initial orders delay will gravitate from 0% to 100% during the first 00:03:00. Both orders were given before the start of the scenario. It happened later with 2/502 and with 2/506 with orders issued immediately after they entered the game.

I completely understand orders delays later on in the game. But, with this scenario (and the other MG airborne scenarios) there is no reason for orders to be abandoned because of some delay issue. Certainly, since I'm playing at the slowest setting, I can pause and reissue an order, but this has only worked sometimes - maybe with half of the reissued orders. With the other half, I get the attack abandoned message again.

It's not like these are orders which have just come down from Division and have to work their way down the chain. These guys (at least the officers) have had their plans before they ever boarded their C-47's. This was a daylight drop, dead on the money except for 1/501. They've seen the maps and gamed at the sand tables. They knew the direction of approach to the LZ's. It understandably takes some time to get sorted out on the ground, but they should certainly know where they're going...

I'm going to try again this morning. It's not like I don't have other gaming options. I had hoped that this would have been fixed in the 3-4 years since I gave the game up due to this (or similar) issue.

On a separate note, Keydet, I see you're in Suffolk. I left Carrollton a month ago (just before the "lockdown") to move to Fredericksburg where I live on a hill smack in the middle of the Confederate line of 1862. I grew up and went to school in a town about 85 miles to the southwest of Lexington. I appreciate your help!

Edit: I don't know why the pic posted twice. I lost the post once after I'd attached the picture; I guess it stayed as I lost the narrative

 

[jimcarravallah]

rom the Game Manual Pg. 148 "Some scenarios have an Initial orders Delay modifier that magnifies the orders delay sometimes several times longer than normal. This represents the side being caught completely by surprise and cut off from communications to the upper HQ (like the Americans were on December 16th in the battle of the bulge.) The effects of this added delay can be significant - your units may not respond to your commands for several hours. This % multiplier will be greatest at the beginning of the scenario and get less and less over time until finally only the normal ( 100% ) delay applies. The initial orders display is shown at the top of the side’s briefing."

For certain, there are no orders delays with reinforcements, at least in this scenario. The first two times I saw this was right after starting the game. It happened with orders for 1/501 and 2/501 - the scenario briefing says that "Initial orders delay will gravitate from 0% to 100% during the first 00:03:00. Both orders were given before the start of the scenario. It happened later with 2/502 and with 2/506 with orders issued immediately after they entered the game.

I completely understand orders delays later on in the game. But, with this scenario (and the other MG airborne scenarios) there is no reason for orders to be abandoned because of some delay issue. Certainly, since I'm playing at the slowest setting, I can pause and reissue an order, but this has only worked sometimes - maybe with half of the reissued orders. With the other half, I get the attack abandoned message again.

It's not like these are orders which have just come down from Division and have to work their way down the chain. These guys (at least the officers) have had their plans before they ever boarded their C-47's. This was a daylight drop, dead on the money except for 1/501. They've seen the maps and gamed at the sand tables. They knew the direction of approach to the LZ's. It understandably takes some time to get sorted out on the ground, but they should certainly know where they're going...

I'm going to try again this morning. It's not like I don't have other gaming options. I had hoped that this would have been fixed in the 3-4 years since I gave the game up due to this (or similar) issue.

On a separate note, Keydet, I see you're in Suffolk. I left Carrollton a month ago (just before the "lockdown") to move to Fredericksburg where I live on a hill smack in the middle of the Confederate line of 1862. I grew up and went to school in a town about 85 miles to the southwest of Lexington. I appreciate your help!

Edit: I don't know why the pic posted twice. I lost the post once after I'd attached the picture; I guess it stayed as I lost the narrative

I I think you're confusing initial orders delay with the standard (user selected) orders delay.

From the game Manual Pg. 148: "Some scenarios have an Initial orders Delay modifier that magnifies the orders delay sometimes several times longer than normal. This represents the side being caught completely by surprise and cut off from communications to the upper HQ (like the Americans were on December 16th in the battle of the bulge.) The effects of this added delay can be significant - your units may not respond to your commands for several hours. This % multiplier will be greatest at the beginning of the scenario and get less and less over time until finally only the normal ( 100% ) delay applies. The initial orders display is shown at the top of the side’s briefing."

If you made a selection of Orders Delay (Pg. 147) there is still a lag between the time you issue an order and the time it is started.

Since the at start configuration of the scenario designates a battalion HQ as the on map boss at scenario start, II believe your issue may be caused by issuing an order to the division HQ before the division HQ has arrived on map, the delay in arrival and the selected orders delay for a division level move leaving insufficient time to complete the order within the time designated in the orders window..

I'd suggest waiting for the division HQ to show up on the map, and then issuing the order to see if you have better results.

If the problem persists, the developers can diagnose it if you provide a game save at the point the fault occurs and, ideally,a recording of activities that occured before the game save..

 

[Rake]

Thanks Jim,

I don't believe that I'm confused at all. I have not issued any orders to the division at the start of the game, just to the individual battalions and a company or two. At first, 1/501 is on-map boss until the Division HQ arrives at 1303 (thereabouts, I don't exactly recall). Initially, I thought this might have something to do with 1/501 abandoning its attack; it's close to overload at scenario start. This doesn't appear to be the case now as everything is working...

AIUI, this scenario starts with no delays until 3 hours after the units arrive - that's what I think 00:03:00 means in the briefing. Maybe it's 3 minutes. In either case, the orders were issued at the time the units entered the map so there should have been no delay.

In any event, this "bug" appears entirely random which it seems would make it very difficult to pin down. I have restarted the game, issuing exactly the same orders to the same units as I did in both starts yesterday. This morning, I am now at 1400 and have not seen the first occurence of this issue. All of the first day's airborne reinforcements are on-map and moving as ordered. Who knows.

I have many saves from yesterday if anyone wants to take a look.

 

[jimcarravallah]

Thanks Jim,

I don't believe that I'm confused at all. I have not issued any orders to the division at the start of the game, just to the individual battalions and a company or two. At first, 1/501 is on-map boss until the Division HQ arrives at 1303 (thereabouts, I don't exactly recall). Initially, I thought this might have something to do with 1/501 abandoning its attack; it's close to overload at scenario start. This doesn't appear to be the case now as everything is working...

AIUI, this scenario starts with no delays until 3 hours after the units arrive - that's what I think 00:03:00 means in the briefing. Maybe it's 3 minutes. In either case, the orders were issued at the time the units entered the map so there should have been no delay.

In any event, this "bug" appears entirely random which it seems would make it very difficult to pin down. I have restarted the game, issuing exactly the same orders to the same units as I did in both starts yesterday. This morning, I am now at 1400 and have not seen the first occurence of this issue. All of the first day's airborne reinforcements are on-map and moving as ordered. Who knows.

I have many saves from yesterday if anyone wants to take a look.

Unless you set your initial preferences to "no orders delay" there is what I'll call an organic orders delay for every order.

It's based on the table on page 120 of the game manual. I believe the games default to a "normal" orders delay, which matches the table and is adjusted by ordering unit parameters and receiving unit parameters.

This does not get negated by the Initial Orders Delay designation but magnified by it, meaning a 0% Initial orders delay won't result in any increase in the standard order delay, and a 100% designation will increase the standard duration by 100% (effectively doubling it)..

 

[simovitch]

This is an annoying feature/bug that I believe is currently being worked on in development. The last candidate we tested units were stopping the attack or move and just sitting it out for reasons that have nothing to do with order delays but more with the unit's confusion during a re-plan.

I think the "lack of time" attack interruption is related to this and will hopefully be fixed. Like keydet mentioned above, I usually attribute it to some jumbled communications or other random issue. In fact, if the message read "attack abandoned due to communications failure" or something like that, I would all be happy and think it was a cool feature. meh.

 

[ioncore]

This is an annoying feature/bug that I believe is currently being worked on in development. The last candidate we tested units were stopping the attack or move and just sitting it out for reasons that have nothing to do with order delays but more with the unit's confusion during a re-plan.

Was my understanding as well, but Dave could tell for sure.

 

[Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor]

Yep that's been fixed. IIRC it was due to a wrong calculation of the time available.