Crews and destroyed/abandoned vehicles

[Jack Ruetty]

I am confused with the wording in the 5.0 Manual and the Quick Cards 5.0 concerning the fates of crews when vehicles are destroyed or abandoned. Some of the phrases used are:

Abandoned vehicles are just that: Abandoned. Place an Abandoned marker on the vehicle. It cannot move or fire for the remainder of the scenario. Roll 1d6: if the result is a 1, place a Good Order Crew in the hex under a Moved marker. (Page 33 of the Manual)

If it (the vehicle) fails the MC, the Crew abandons the vehicle; place a Shaken Crew counter in the vehicle’s hex under a Moved marker. (Page 78 of the Manual)

Abandoned vehicles are just that; Abandoned. Place an Abandoned marker on the vehicle. It cannot move or fire for the remainder of the scenario. Place a Shaken Crew under a Moved marker in the Abandoned vehicle’s hex. (Page 4 of Quick Cards 5.0)

Destroyed vehicles are replaced with a Wreck marker. Both passengers and Crew must take a Bailout Check.
(Page 4 of Quick Cards 5.0 and Page 33 of the Manual)

Whenever a vehicle is destroyed by ordnance, roll 1d6: if the result is 1, place a GO Crew under a Moved marker on the Wreck; for any other result, eliminate the Crew along with their vehicle. (Page 78 of the Manual)

From Ordnance vs Armor on page 9 of the Quick Cards:
If a Vehicle is Destroyed: Roll 1d6
1= Place GO Crew under Moved Marker on top of Wreck Marker
2-6= Eliminate Crew and Place Wreck Marker

From Ordnance vs Unarmored on page 9 of the Quick Cards:
If Hit: Target Destroyed and Bail-out check

A lot of the language seems to conflict (at least to me).

Lastly for Passengers I felt the wording used was always Bail -Out Check when their vehicle was destroyed so no problems there.

Thanks for any help.
Jack

 

[Jack Ruetty]

I think I might have found a partial answer. The Quick Aids Charts I have and look at the most all define a Bailout Check as roll one dice and if the result is Even: Shaken or Odd; Eliminated. Nothing about a 1 means survive in GO and 2-6 means eliminated. However a Weapons, Ammo and Target Aid defines a Bailout Check as Roll 1 Die. Crew: 1 survive in GO and 2-6 eliminated. Passengers: Even: Shaken and Odd; Eliminated. This makes sense now for destroyed vehicles and the fate of the crews and passengers. A Bailout check means one thing for a Crew and another for Passengers. If this is wrong please correct me.

Now if somebody could explain whether a crew that Abandons a tanks is in Good Order or Shaken I would appreciate it. I feel they should be Shaken but not sure.

Thanks for any help
Jack

 

[TerryB]

Hi Jack,

This flowchart may help. It shows when GO/Shaken crew is placed. I've not checked it's 100% updated with the 5.0 rules, but I like the clarity...

https://forums.lnlpublishing.com/resources/lnlt-ordnance-flowchart.156/

Have fun!
Terry

 

[Jack Ruetty]

Thanks Terry. What a great chart.

As far as Abandoned Vehicles and the status of the crew, I have come to the conclusion that the crew is Shaken and placed under a Moved marker. This is used on every player aid (including the one you sent) and on Page 78 of the Manual. The only time "Roll 1d6: if the result is a 1, place a Good Order Crew in the hex under a Moved marker" is used is on Page 33 of the Manual and even than the statement is incomplete as no mention is made of what happens on rolls of 2-6. So my feeling is that the wording concerning crew of abandoned vehicles on Page 33 is wrong.

Thanks for the help and especially for the chart.

Jack

 

[Barthheart]

Or you can do what a lot of us old timers do and just don't use crews. Assume they just run and hide for the rest of the scenario.
They rarely, if ever, count for VPs, can't do anything is shaken and mostly nothing if GO.
Not really worth the overhead of running around cluttering up the boards.....

 

[Jack Ruetty]

Probably a good idea. However, I only play the old Heroes of Stalingrad game from Matrix. I own HoN and the Solo Module but sadly no local opponents. Looking forward to the new digital release of the LnL Tactical Series. Reading through the 5.0 rulebook and playing Heroes of Stalingrad. Same programmer and the 5.0 rules and the old 3.1 rules seem very similar. I think the 3.1 rules formed the basis of the Heroes of Stalingrad. Hopefully new game will be out soon. Thanks for the reply.
Jack

 

[Captain Darling]

They rarely, if ever, count for VPs, can't do anything is shaken and mostly nothing if GO.
Not really worth the overhead of running around cluttering up the boards.....

Actually on two occasions I have successfully used crews (as they are listed as MMC’s) to occupy objective hexes...freed up my other MMC’s to manoeuvre and fight on...

As an aside I have trialled a house rule allowing AFV crews to have SR capability (they would have at least one NCO amongst their number) and found it worked okay, a SW crew can SR so logically an AFV crew can too...