GPQ Supply and Sub Base Capacity

[yugohubo]

Hello, I have a couple of questions about the supply system. I would be so glad if you can help me with:
1-
I noticed a problem with the supply capacity(i don't know if it's an intended effect tho).
When a sub base for example CCA Base of 4th Armored Base loses all of it's capacity due to either, MSR is cut of or because the combat is so brutal supply trucks just die when they try to supply the front line; allunits belonging to CCA just cant have anymore supply because supply base exists but it can't send any since no transport capacity remaining. So my question is how can i solve this problem?
Can i attach CCA units to another base or somehow let 4th Armored Base to send some capacity to CCA?

2-In the HTTR module All American over Nijmegen scenario as Allies;
There are two SEPs at the start that can supply units of 82nd. I have 2 bases at Grosbeek Heights but my regimental base tries to take supply from the other SEP to the west that is at the other side of river. At first it was taking supplies from the 82nd div base but after the second day if i recall correctly it changed.
Because of this situation it can't take its supplies as it's an airborne base so not much capacity and range.
My question is how bases decide which SEP and/or which higher Base they try to take supplies and can i change this?

By the way this is my first post at this forum. And i am really in love with this game,so thank you for simply making this game exist. Oh and sorry that i don't have any saves about my problems.
EDIT: I play with the base steam edition dunno if its still different from the lnl version tho

 

[jimcarravallah]

Hello, I have a couple of questions about the supply system. I would be so glad if you can help me with:
1-
I noticed a problem with the supply capacity(i don't know if it's an intended effect tho).
When a sub base for example CCA Base of 4th Armored Base loses all of it's capacity due to either, MSR is cut of or because the combat is so brutal supply trucks just die when they try to supply the front line; allunits belonging to CCA just cant have anymore supply because supply base exists but it can't send any since no transport capacity remaining. So my question is how can i solve this problem?
Can i attach CCA units to another base or somehow let 4th Armored Base to send some capacity to CCA?

This is working as intended. I've never seen a situation where all transport from a base has been eliminated, but suppose it's possible.

When transport is limited from a base, the base slows deliveries of supplies either delaying deliveries until sufficient units return from earlier deliveries to handle the load, or rationing supplies by partially filling requests.

It's best during the game to protect the base from attack (so transport isn't lost in combat) and to monitor supply line status, assuring all units drawing supplies from a particular base are positioned where they can safely receive replenishment supplies, or assuring the security of routes by patrolling between the base and combat units drawing from it to eliminate enemy interdiction.

I don't find confirmation in the game manual, but I believe a subordinate unit will draw from a higher echelon of command if it's immediate supplying base is eliminated or incapable of sending supplies. If the transition to the next higher echelon base occurs, it would happen on the next regularly-scheduled supply delivery (0600 or 1800) during the game.

2-In the HTTR module All American over Nijmegen scenario as Allies;
There are two SEPs at the start that can supply units of 82nd. I have 2 bases at Grosbeek Heights but my regimental base tries to take supply from the other SEP to the west that is at the other side of river. At first it was taking supplies from the 82nd div base but after the second day if i recall correctly it changed.
Because of this situation it can't take its supplies as it's an airborne base so not much capacity and range.
My question is how bases decide which SEP and/or which higher Base they try to take supplies and can i change this?

By the way this is my first post at this forum. And i am really in love with this game,so thank you for simply making this game exist. Oh and sorry that i don't have any saves about my problems.
EDIT: I play with the base steam edition dunno if its still different from the lnl version tho

This may be answered by looking at the SEP capacity to handle on map demands.

Some games are designed for the SEP to handle only a percentage of the capacity required at start, and increase what they can handle during the game. .When this occurs, the a base may switch where it draws replenishment to the higher capacity base.

In addition, in airborne scenarios, the most effective SEP may switch from an airdrop location to one on a newly-opened map edge, because ground delivered supplies generally arrive on map at a higher capacity with ground deliveries than they would with air deliveries.

The optimal SEP for a base is determined by a combination of SEP capacity and proximity to the supplied base. Moving the base closer to a SEP may force the base to draw from that SEP after taking the penalties that occur because the base goes out of service while it moves and redeploys.

 

[yugohubo]

Thanks for reply Jim,

For the;

but I believe a subordinate unit will draw from a higher echelon of command if it's immediate supplying base is eliminated or incapable of sending supplies.

I had a scenario which this occured but none of the higher echelon bases responded to supply situation even though they had sufficent capacity (i waited for 2 in game days to see). Also for the 0 capacity base it showed that supply lines are green not cut off but all requests are unproc. I even tried to put my out of ammo units near that base but still no effect.

For;

I've never seen a situation where all transport from a base has been eliminated, but suppose it's possible.

Well, for me, most of the time in airborne scenarios this happens due to very low capacity of bases and sometimes in normal scenarios but not due to base seeing engagements, purely because of cut supply lines either because of combat at the front line or MSR cut of with the drawing unit/s.

For;

In addition, in airborne scenarios, the most effective SEP may switch from an airdrop location to one on a newly-opened map edge, because ground delivered supplies generally arrive on map at a higher capacity with ground deliveries than they would with air deliveries.

I should have said it clearer, there are 3 SEP's in the scenario but base tries to take supplies from the far sided airdrop SEP which is the SEP for airborne forces between Grave and Mook, not the ground road SEP and not the SEP at Groosbek or it's higher echelon base of divison which is also in the 1km range.

Also as addition to this i tried to change the lower echelon bases' supplier by changing their positions in the St. Vith scenario. Took the 4th Armored Base near to bridge and let CCA be near SEP at the border of map but still CCA took supplies from 4th Armored Base. Also yeah i waited for supply determination events, ran it for 5 days in game.

Thanks.

 

[yugohubo]

Also i just remembered,

For the Nijmegen scenario after the 30th Corps and its base enter the battlefield 82nd Division Base supplier did not change to 30th Corps and my units belonging to 82nd still remained out of supply and basics since 82nd base capacity also depleted after the 3rd day. Untill the end of the scenario 82nd remained as ineffective due to out of supply. I wish i had a save or ss tho, if i come across a situation like this i will provide one but if you can help with the info at hand it would be amazing.

Thanks.

 

[yugohubo]

This is from a supply route that should be interrupted but apperently it is not,(maybe it is not yet come into contact with the enemy at the route so it is green)


This is how it should be for 25th Recon. But the next pic shows another save and its new depot is 4th Armored. why?
If you think it is a bug i can provide save files.
This is the CCR Base and all its units that take supply from it. But apparently not 25th Recon.

 

[yugohubo]

Here are some screenshots of in my opinion weird things in the game, about supply:


This one actually happens a lot but now i also documented it. How this unit lost its 100 percent supply just about 4 minutes ago while there is no enemy units along the route. Also since 1800 hours i believe there was no enemy units between supply base and this unit.


Weirdly this HQ supplied from 101st div base but its companies supplied by:
506 Reg Base.


Now the weirdest thing: The one i talked about Nijmegen;


Why would you do that 506?


One thing extra i don't know if it should make sense or not but no enemy units between me and the bridge but still it exploded.



If you could help me with these i would be most glad.
Thanks.

 

[ioncore]

@yugohubo
- Which version do you use LnL 5.1.28 or Steam 5.1.31?
- Have you stored recordings for that battle?

 

[yugohubo]

@ioncore
I use the steam version
I have save games of just at the time of screenshots if you mean that
But save games are not allowed files to upload here tho how can i upload?

 

[ioncore]

1) Ok, FYI if you go to "<your_steam_folder>/steamapps/common/Command Ops 2" and create a "Recordings" folder there, then there will be a recording file "game-recording.cor" stored automatically. It is especially useful when investigating issues like crashes etc. Be aware, though, that it will be overwritten with the next game run, so as soon as you encounter any issue you should stop the game and backup the recording file for further analysis.
2) Savefiles you can zip before uploading.

 

[yugohubo]

1-Oh great, i always wanted to use that record/replay function.
2-Ok here are the files;
Relevant Saves.zip

 

[Arkadiy]

Not sure if anything came out of this, but I did see a similar situation - all supply trucks were destroyed over the course of the playthrough (I don't think it was a base being attacked - just convoys being intercepted by pesky AI), and everything that fed from that base stopped getting supply altogether.

 

[Mezentius]

Here's a supply situation that I encountered last night that confused me (from the excellent user-created campaign "Fall Weiss"):

Note that the Axis is holding nearly all of the objectives, having destroyed all of the Polish supply bases, and yet the Polish forces nearly encircled within the city are still somehow getting supplied, whereas the Axis forces around it are not.

(Can provide a save file if that's helpful)

 

[ioncore]

Do Germans have any on-map depot units? Do these units still have transport equipment to create columns from?

 

[Mezentius]

Ah -- you're right, this particular scenario seems to have been designed without a supply base for the Axis. But if that's the case, shouldn't all of my units be out of the supply line then, instead of just some of them? And since the Poles no longer have any intact supply bases, shouldn't they be out too?

(Apologies if this is answered somewhere in the manual)

 

[GoodGuy]

Ah -- you're right, this particular scenario seems to have been designed without a supply base for the Axis. But if that's the case, shouldn't all of my units be out of the supply line then, instead of just some of them? And since the Poles no longer have any intact supply bases, shouldn't they be out too?

(Apologies if this is answered somewhere in the manual)

Are you sure that all Polish supply bases have been destroyed? I am guessing that both sides are drawing from SEPs, anyways. In that case the Germans partially surrounding the Polish units may be cut off (partially) from their main supply route, where - in turn - the Polish units seem to be able to either use the road to the North (to some extent), as only a small German unit (which seems to be routing) actually sits/recovers near the road (and only 1 German tank unit seems to approach the same road further north, at an even bigger distance to the main road), or the road to the NW (not sure how the supply code handles map edges) - the engine might register these perimeters as being under partial or even full (road to the north) Polish control.

 

[Mezentius]

I surrendered to see the final situation and can confirm that all of the Polish supply bases were destroyed. I also control both Polish SEPs (the Northern and North-Eastern roads). The road to the north from the besieged city wouldn't help because I've blocked it with about a division of infantry. Note that despite any supply bases or SEPs available, the supply line seems to be okay. (And despite the fact that I have no supply bases, some of my units are in supply but others aren't.)

 

[jimcarravallah]

I surrendered to see the final situation and can confirm that all of the Polish supply bases were destroyed. I also control both Polish SEPs (the Northern and North-Eastern roads). The road to the north from the besieged city wouldn't help because I've blocked it with about a division of infantry. Note that despite any supply bases or SEPs available, the supply line seems to be okay. (And despite the fact that I have no supply bases, some of my units are in supply but others aren't.)

View attachment 9077

The display of supply lines indicates whether a unit can receive resupply when required.

The supply status for the unit shows what's on hand at the unit to conduct operations. Units can be cut off from a supplying base yet remain viable for combat based on the amount of supplies they have on hand.

 

[Mezentius]

The display of supply lines indicates whether a unit can receive resupply when required.

The supply status for the unit shows what's on hand at the unit to conduct operations. Units can be cut off from a supplying base yet remain viable for combat based on the amount of supplies they have on hand.

Hi Jim -- I can verify that the picture I attached shows the 'Supply Line' display, not the 'Basic Supplies' one.

As you say, it should determine whether a unit can receive resupply when required—which, in the situation pictured, is actually no one. In this version of the scenario, the Axis does not have a supply base. However, the Polish supply bases have all been destroyed, the SEPs controlled by the Axis, and all forces in the city completely encircled.

So my questions are-- 1) why are the Polish forces encircled within the city still in "green" supply line, and 2) why are some Axis forces in 'green' supply line and others in 'red'?

Unless, perhaps, you're suggesting that "green" Supply Line status is really an EITHER/OR proposition? i.e. Green EITHER if unit can receive resupply OR if unit has enough supplies to be viable for combat?

 

[jimcarravallah]

Hi Jim -- I can verify that the picture I attached shows the 'Supply Line' display, not the 'Basic Supplies' one.

As you say, it should determine whether a unit can receive resupply when required—which, in the situation pictured, is actually no one. In this version of the scenario, the Axis does not have a supply base. However, the Polish supply bases have all been destroyed, the SEPs controlled by the Axis, and all forces in the city completely encircled.

So my questions are-- 1) why are the Polish forces encircled within the city still in "green" supply line, and 2) why are some Axis forces in 'green' supply line and others in 'red'?

Unless, perhaps, you're suggesting that "green" Supply Line status is really an EITHER/OR proposition? i.e. Green EITHER if unit can receive resupply OR if unit has enough supplies to be viable for combat?

from the Game Manual, Page 110:

"The final info displayed using F7 key/unit info button is supply line status. Here red indicates the supply line is cut, orange that is threatened and green that it is open.

" Unlike all other Unit Info ( and unlike the in-game resupply messages ), Supply Line Status is not “current” but displays the last known data."

The supply line status should change with the next scheduled resupply pulse when the entrapped units cannot receive new supplies by any route to the encircled city.