TANKS AT PLATAMON
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john connor
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Not sure what I should do now, with the little men available. I'm most worried about a strong attack directly at the castle hill/tunnel area, so have to keep that well covered, at least until we've had a shot at blowing the crossings, I think. But I'm also worried about infiltration higher up on the ridge line and would dearly like to have an extra 2 units to station up there to cover it. But I haven't any spare. I could take D Coy away from the road (leaving that to A Coy) but d Coy alone, in the pitch black night, will not have good enough LOS to cover the entire ridge. And in any event, how am I supposed to stop the Axis armour? C Coy is the only unit that has tried, so far, with a little delaying success, but it's not sustainable and they were in retreat having lost 21 men when I ordered them to a new position. Soon I will have to move my 25 pounders back to allow them to bombard the tunnel area also - at the moment it's outside minimum range.
Long term, this looks bleak to me. I lost Panteleemon having only held it long enough to get 1.5 points from it. The Exit points (which could give me around 38 points) only open up during day 3!!!! What am I meant to do until then? So far I feel the Axis has been merely probing. They have yet to throw their weight around.
Pretty sure I'm going to lose this!
Long term, this looks bleak to me. I lost Panteleemon having only held it long enough to get 1.5 points from it. The Exit points (which could give me around 38 points) only open up during day 3!!!! What am I meant to do until then? So far I feel the Axis has been merely probing. They have yet to throw their weight around.
Pretty sure I'm going to lose this!
Do your 25 pdr's have ant tank rounds?
They are very effective anti tank weapons in the direct fire role, especially at this stage of the war.
The biggest problem being that they are hard to conceal however.
They will be more than a match for PZ III's if allowed to engage from concealed, dug in positions, or you could use them in an ambush on the reverse side of a hill, but that won't help you to blow the bridge.
Would be better if you could move them forward at last light to a position with good arcs of fire so they have time to dig in before dawn.
They are very effective anti tank weapons in the direct fire role, especially at this stage of the war.
The biggest problem being that they are hard to conceal however.
They will be more than a match for PZ III's if allowed to engage from concealed, dug in positions, or you could use them in an ambush on the reverse side of a hill, but that won't help you to blow the bridge.
Would be better if you could move them forward at last light to a position with good arcs of fire so they have time to dig in before dawn.
john connor
Member
What a brilliant idea! Why didn't I think of that? Thanks Daz! I will have to try it, though the risk is enormous. That arty unit is the best thing I have to slow them, the only thing. If I bring it in close and lose it....
How do I make them fire in direct mode? Does it happen automatically?
How do I make them fire in direct mode? Does it happen automatically?
DerGrenadier
Member
I really enjoy this thread. Theres always something new to learn.
Iconoclast
Member
HeyPeter,
great to see you doing an AAR for this amazing scenario. I am a great friend of the small engagements and think that this particular one is among the sweetest scenarios in CO.
A thought that came to me when seeing the InfCoy trying to hold up in Panteleemon: In 'school' one sentence stuck with me that reminded me of your situation there. It was something to the effect of 'infantry forces the enemy into close combat'. Meaning that you might want to consider pulling C Coy deeper into the build-up area. That way, they will not invite the Germans to use their guns at long range, but have to close in into the town. Thats where you can hit them easier with the AT-Rifles.
Regards,
A
great to see you doing an AAR for this amazing scenario. I am a great friend of the small engagements and think that this particular one is among the sweetest scenarios in CO.
A thought that came to me when seeing the InfCoy trying to hold up in Panteleemon: In 'school' one sentence stuck with me that reminded me of your situation there. It was something to the effect of 'infantry forces the enemy into close combat'. Meaning that you might want to consider pulling C Coy deeper into the build-up area. That way, they will not invite the Germans to use their guns at long range, but have to close in into the town. Thats where you can hit them easier with the AT-Rifles.
Regards,
A
The 25pdr's will engage automatically when they have line of sight. depending on their agro setting, or ambush setting.
Its has quite a low muzzle velocity.
The effective anti-armour range is 600m , so this is the range they will engage at if set to normal aggro.
If set to max aggro, they will engage out to 1000m, but will miss more.
Ideally find a position for them that is covered from enemy observation, from the direction of the most likely approach route, down to a distance of 600m, and set it to normal.
This will stop them from running out of ammo early, and cause max damage to the enemy before they have a chance to return fire.
It will also keep the enemy at a safer distance than setting them to ambush I think.
I'm not sure but I think they will engage, if set to ambush, at a distance of about half the effective range, so about 300m.
Would need Dave to confirm that observation, or maybe you can experiment with it. I would be very interested to know for sure.
You will need to ensure the flanks of the 25pdr position are protected by infantry, to stop the position from being outflanked by enemy infantry.
The 25pdr Battery will effectively become the anchor for your defensive line, around which all the other units manoeuvre to support it.
Its has quite a low muzzle velocity.
The effective anti-armour range is 600m , so this is the range they will engage at if set to normal aggro.
If set to max aggro, they will engage out to 1000m, but will miss more.
Ideally find a position for them that is covered from enemy observation, from the direction of the most likely approach route, down to a distance of 600m, and set it to normal.
This will stop them from running out of ammo early, and cause max damage to the enemy before they have a chance to return fire.
It will also keep the enemy at a safer distance than setting them to ambush I think.
I'm not sure but I think they will engage, if set to ambush, at a distance of about half the effective range, so about 300m.
Would need Dave to confirm that observation, or maybe you can experiment with it. I would be very interested to know for sure.
You will need to ensure the flanks of the 25pdr position are protected by infantry, to stop the position from being outflanked by enemy infantry.
The 25pdr Battery will effectively become the anchor for your defensive line, around which all the other units manoeuvre to support it.
john connor
Member
Thanks DerGrenadier, for me too - there's always something to learn. A lot of it is also just trying to work out what the engine can do.
Good suggestion, Iconoclast. That's what I was trying to do when I ran it again from the early save - I gave C Coy settings that I thought would make them bunker down in the village and wait for the tanks to get close - but, you're right, it would have been desirable to move them further back into the village, especially since I don't think you can change the footprint for a single unit by specifying frontage and depth (I'm going to ask Dave to clarify this). I didn't do that because then they wouldn't have been entrenched any longer, and I wanted to keep them in the trenches. But now, as we see, none of it worked. The tanks came close, C Coy took out two (maybe) and then they got up out of the trenches and retreated anyway.
The more I think about it, the more I am considering moving them back into Panteleemon by night. I wonder if I could set up the 25 pounders on the hill above Panteleemon so that they could attack the tanks with direct fire in the morning, to support C Coy? I might consider that if I knew how to get the 26 pounders into the direct fire role (as Daz suggested), but I can't find out how to do that. If I park them up behind Panteleemon they will continue bombarding on demand, I think. Then they will be spotted very easily and there will definitely be a fierce counter-battery attack and I will then start losing the 25 pounders, and I only have 4.....
It's tough.
Good suggestion, Iconoclast. That's what I was trying to do when I ran it again from the early save - I gave C Coy settings that I thought would make them bunker down in the village and wait for the tanks to get close - but, you're right, it would have been desirable to move them further back into the village, especially since I don't think you can change the footprint for a single unit by specifying frontage and depth (I'm going to ask Dave to clarify this). I didn't do that because then they wouldn't have been entrenched any longer, and I wanted to keep them in the trenches. But now, as we see, none of it worked. The tanks came close, C Coy took out two (maybe) and then they got up out of the trenches and retreated anyway.
The more I think about it, the more I am considering moving them back into Panteleemon by night. I wonder if I could set up the 25 pounders on the hill above Panteleemon so that they could attack the tanks with direct fire in the morning, to support C Coy? I might consider that if I knew how to get the 26 pounders into the direct fire role (as Daz suggested), but I can't find out how to do that. If I park them up behind Panteleemon they will continue bombarding on demand, I think. Then they will be spotted very easily and there will definitely be a fierce counter-battery attack and I will then start losing the 25 pounders, and I only have 4.....
It's tough.
john connor
Member
I see your reply now, Daz, about direct fire. Thanks. But how do I stop them carrying out bombard missions instead, I wonder? (a) to keep them focussed on killing tanks, (b) so as not to give away their location and expose themselves to counter-battery fire?
Interesting how tactical the game can get when it's down at this level.
Interesting how tactical the game can get when it's down at this level.
john connor
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john connor
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john connor
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john connor
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john connor
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john connor
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john connor
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DerGrenadier
Member
I think moving the 25 Pounders is very risky as the Luftwaffe will surely make them a premier target, at least thats what I would do. I dont think they will get dug in by dawn. I would have left them in place. But Iam eager to know how your plan turns out.
john connor
Member
Me too, Erik (though working now, so can't play...). I don't think they'll even make the position by dawn. I badly underestimated the effects of the movement costs across those steep hillsides. I'll play it through and see how it goes. I can always go back to the save and try a different way. Once the crossings were blown I felt I could move 2 units out of that area to block the ridge (as I have), so probably I didn't need to get the 25 pounders up there. If the crossings hadn't gone (if the attempts to blow failed) then it would have been better, perhaps, to move the 25 pounders nearer the Tunnel exit because that's where the tanks would arrive en masse. You live and learn! I could order them back down now, I guess. I'll let them go a bit, see what happens. I'm keen to see what happens if they do go into direct fire mode.
Moving them has also meant I've been without serious arty support all night.
Peter
Moving them has also meant I've been without serious arty support all night.
Peter
DerGrenadier
Member
Yeah surely when the position by the tunnels is breached the 25 pounders are lost as they dont will be able to retreat.
I've just had a quick play through, and I am wondering if you are putting to much emphasis on holding at the ridge?
You are massively out numbered, and outgunned, and have way to few forces to hold at the ridge.
I think once the bridges are blown, maybe you should pull back right away, and keep moving from cover to cover, towards the exit points?
Try to occupy the objectives for a short while, but never long enough to become surrounded.
This is always my biggest mistake when defending, and exactly what I did in the play though I just had, where I held to long, got surrounded, and wiped out lol
Well it wasn't a complete disaster as I got a marginal victory in the end, but it was hit and miss.
I think if I try again, I will keep my Bn together, and keep pulling back towards the exits, and defend there.
That after all is the Axis main objective, to exit to Tempe, so you need to stop them from doing that, and the only way to do that is to stop them getting to the exit roads before you.
If you defend for to long at Castle ridge, once they do get past you, you will never be able to catch them up again, as they are much faster, being a mechanized force.
This is another one of them delay scenarios, and without the delay command working very well, its a tough one to beat.
I must say I am very much enjoying your attempts though, and its very inspiring to have a go myself.
Once again, this is not a scenario I would have chosen for an AAR, as I don't like to be on the defensive, but you have inspired me to have a go
You are massively out numbered, and outgunned, and have way to few forces to hold at the ridge.
I think once the bridges are blown, maybe you should pull back right away, and keep moving from cover to cover, towards the exit points?
Try to occupy the objectives for a short while, but never long enough to become surrounded.
This is always my biggest mistake when defending, and exactly what I did in the play though I just had, where I held to long, got surrounded, and wiped out lol
Well it wasn't a complete disaster as I got a marginal victory in the end, but it was hit and miss.
I think if I try again, I will keep my Bn together, and keep pulling back towards the exits, and defend there.
That after all is the Axis main objective, to exit to Tempe, so you need to stop them from doing that, and the only way to do that is to stop them getting to the exit roads before you.
If you defend for to long at Castle ridge, once they do get past you, you will never be able to catch them up again, as they are much faster, being a mechanized force.
This is another one of them delay scenarios, and without the delay command working very well, its a tough one to beat.
I must say I am very much enjoying your attempts though, and its very inspiring to have a go myself.
Once again, this is not a scenario I would have chosen for an AAR, as I don't like to be on the defensive, but you have inspired me to have a go
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