Vehicles in Melee?

[crak]

Can vehicles melee with their MG firepower, or only overrun? I have a tank that can roll into a shaken stack but doesn't have the extra MF to overrun. Perfectly happy to have him sit there under a melee marker though.

It seems like vehicle melee is covered by overrun and close assault but I can't find anywhere in the melee section that says vehicles can't do it the regular way too.

 

[Barthheart]

Vehicles cannot do normal melee only overrun, for them, and close assault for infantry vs vehicles.

 

[TerryB]

Hi guys,

I cant find a specific prohibition to vehicle melee except through combining these two sections. The use of "can" in 15.2 doesnt make AM for vehicles obligatory. But I've never played with vehicles entering melee, they either overrun or get caught in close-combat

8.0 When units enter a hex containing enemy units, they must Melee. Units cannot use AM to enter Melee.

15.2 Unless otherwise noted, all vehicles can Assault Move (AM).

Have fun!

 

[crak]

Here's another one... Can a vehicle overrun enemy infantry alone under a melee marker? The rules say units entering reinforce melee but vehicles don't melee, only overrun.

I just got done with the Attack Counterattack scenario with Australians vs Italians and it turned into L3s and Autoblinda 41s overrunning everything in sight. The only thing to stop them reliably seemed to be bogging in the sand.

 

[TerryB]

Again I'd say no. If there's still a melee marker that could mean that there are friendly troops there too. Like not being able to fire into a hex with a melee marker, even when the melee has actually finished.

5.0 You can fire through friendly or enemy units, but cannot fire into a hex that contains both friendly and enemy units—it’s just unethical. Nor can you fire into a hex marked with a Melee marker. That’s a turn-based time-continuum thing.

 

[Barthheart]

Terry's right vehicles cannot enter a melee hex.

 

[crak]

Ok. I think the next rules version needs to make all of this explicit. I can't find anything in there supporting this.

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

I don't know...nowhere in the rules does it say that a vehicle can enter Melee. All the text about Melee is expressed in terms of IFP, which is associated with leg units, not vehicle (vehicle MG are never termed IFP). There is also that sentence under 17.1 that can offer a clue:

Vehicles can always defend in Close Assault, regardless of their activation status, just as infantry units can always defend in Melee, regardless of their activation status.

Granted, it is not explicitely written. Fortunately, the designer did mention that helicopters can't melee, under 19.2.1 so that, at least, is obvious.

 

[TerryB]

I knew I'd seen it somewhere, and I found it at last.

9.2 Only infantry may Melee. The target of Melee may only be infantry units.

Caveat: This is from a non-official source, based on the old V3.1 rules ([URL='https://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/download/pchndswetx/AlternativeRule0.9.pdf']AlternativeRule0.9.pdf[/URL]).

But, at some point, 'vehicular melee' was explicitly prohibited.

 

[crak]

Thanks Terry. In 4.1 it just refers to melee as what "units" do when they enter enemy hexes. My only sense that something was off was also some quick reference sheet I couldn't find again saying that vehicles don't melee and a vague sense of older versions.

 

[Santiago]

Ok. I think the next rules version needs to make all of this explicit. I can't find anything in there supporting this.

Well, there's a note in the player's aid, in the section explaining the Shaken state, which says: "Vehicles do not Melee".

Not the most visible place, really.