AI artillery behaviour

[Fox]

I was playing the first 12hrs of the plan martin scenario as the Germans and noticed some problems with how the AI handled the artillery.

At the scenario start there are 2 infantry divisions under a corps hq, there are 4 battalions of artillery attached to each division with the same number attached directly to the corps hq. I left all of the artillery under AI control except for 1 battalion.

During the time span played I noticed the corps level artillery was relatively active whereas none of the divisional artillery fired any rounds at all.

My understanding was that the lower down the command chain a given artillery unit is the more likely the guns are to fire, given this I was wondering why the corps level artillery was firing and the division level wasn’t? The supply situation is good and all the guns were well within range so I’m not sure why this would occur?

 

[Holman]

It's hard to know what was going on without more information. What orders had you given to the units (or their superiors) in question? Did you have "Rest after Bombard" checked in Menu\Options? (see the manual p. 185.)

 

[Fox]

It's hard to know what was going on without more information. What orders had you given to the units (or their superiors) in question? Did you have "Rest after Bombard" checked in Menu\Options? (see the manual p. 185.)

Yes rest after bombard was checked, I didn't issue any orders to any of the units in question (or their superiors), the status of all the artillery was "on call" aswell.

 

[Holman]

What do you mean when you say you left the arty under AI control but they were on-call? Were the non-firing artillery units under "Defend" orders?

 

[Fox]

What do you mean when you say you left the arty under AI control but they were on-call? Were the non-firing artillery units under "Defend" orders?

The units were given no orders. "on call" is the status written in the force data dialogue, below is an image of one of the divisional arty battalions where you can see it has an "on call support task" listed as its current task.

 

[Holman]

Hmm. I can't say then. I would assume that on-call units should fire unless ammo was an issue.

 

[Daz]

Hi Fox.
See the white task (white square top right of the unit counter) info box, this indicates that the units higher command, that it is attached to, has no orders. So although the arty unit is on call, it wont be passed any fire missions because its superior has no orders.

Give its superior a defend in situ order, or another order that you deem suitable for the situation.
After a short command delay the task marker info box will turn pink, then the unit will get a defend order and become on call to its superior unit.
Having said all the above, the artillery in the game has become very sleepy since Dave responded to calls from the community to make the Artillery less responsive. There may be a bug in there somewhere, or he may have just gone too far, or maybe people prefer it this way?

 

[Fox]

Hi Fox.
See the white task (white square top right of the unit counter) info box, this indicates that the units higher command, that it is attached to, has no orders. So although the arty unit is on call, it wont be passed any fire missions because its superior has no orders.

Give its superior a defend in situ order, or another order that you deem suitable for the situation.
After a short command delay the task marker info box will turn pink, then the unit will get a defend order and become on call to its superior unit.
Having said all the above, the artillery in the game has become very sleepy since Dave responded to calls from the community to make the Artillery less responsive. There may be a bug in there somewhere, or he may have just gone too far, or maybe people prefer it this way?

I did some more testing on this issue with a defensive scenario (though the westwall) over the first 15 hours. The scenario has 5 arty battalions, 4 attached at division level and 1 at corps level.

In the 1st test I gave no orders at all

In the 2nd I gave in situ defence orders for each of the division HQs

In the 3rd I gave in situ defence orders for all the regimental HQs on map followed by in situ defence for the divisional HQ’s

In the 4th test I gave defend orders to each individual artillery battalion.

In the 1st 2 cases both the division and corps level battalions had about 14 engagements each in the 15hr period, in the 3rd case the corps level battalion still fired 14 times but the divisional level battalions only fired 2 or 3 times each. I the 4th case only 1 battalion fired once during the entire period.

From these results it seems that if an artillery unit is (via an order) placed in a battlegroup its chance of supporting units that are not part of that battlegroup is greatly reduced.

It seems the best way to get the ai to fire the artillery is to either put it under command of a battlegroup that contains the line units which will be in contact with the enemy, or to make sure that neither the artillery unit or any of its higher HQs are part of a battlegroup at all.

 

[gherardo crespi]

So, If a battalion attached to a regiment (with a defending order) is in contact attacking or defending, my understanding is that any artillery on call attached to that regiment would be expected to support the battalion.
I wonder if I am missing something in how the software handle the fire support because in my experience that hardly ever happens in the latest build, so I end up to handling all the artillery directly which is ok in smaller scenarios, but definitely not in the larger one.
.

 

[Kurt]

Hi gherardo crespi , personally I leave half of all arty units without any orders and take full control of the other half . This is a temporary fudge which Dave recommends . Obviously there is scope for improvement with arty , this will come in time .

 

[gherardo crespi]

I seems to remember that a while ago in previous builds the Fire Support was much more active, it's a pity that it has changed for the worst.
I am playing Advance to the Sure as US, and I am trying to control all the FS directly because what's left to the AI is almost completely inactive, but that takes away a lot of the fun.

 

[Kurt]

If you or someone you know are fluent in C++ or LUA then come and join our dev team and help Dave with coding changes such as this .

 

[gherardo crespi]

Sorry, I really wish I could help...