FIXED Pending further testing 5.0.12 - 2 man super unit

[gherardo crespi]

In Manhay Crossroad at 12.30 day 2, Task Force McGeorge arrive and claim the the ''To Erezee'' objective, I give it a move order toward Grandmenil and after a couple of minutes it start moving.
At the same time the I BN HQ SS Pz Gren Regt consisting of 2 men with 1 rifle arrive just in front of the
Task Force McGeorge and promptly denies the ''To Erezee'' objective.
At 12.42 Task Force McGeorge is stopped in front of the all powerful 2 men SS unit and the ''To Erezee'' objective is still denied.
Is this how it should be??
Screen shot attached

 

[gherardo crespi]

Update.
At 14.15 Task Force McGeorge (690 personnel) managed to force the 2 man unit to surrender and restarted moving.
It took 1 hour 45 minutes.

 

[Daz]

No, its most definitely not "how it should be".
There is and has been a problem with HQ's holding out for far to long for a while now.
See my AAR here for an example.
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/thr...r-alert-for-those-playing-as-axis.1196/page-5

Dave has asked for some saves with this build (5.0.11), for some samples to work on.
Could you send him some of your saves from this example of yours?
I have already sent some from my game, but it was with an earlier build and I have moved on past that point now.

I must say I am a bit worried he will go to far and make them too soft though, as they should be slightly more resilient than normal, same sized units, to represent the resolve and experience of the officers in it.
At the moment though they are far to resilient in my opinion.

 

[*budd*]

here's a save. The 48th grenadier reg HQ holding out with 11 men in St. Vith. The unit has been there awhile when this save was taken but this is the earliest save i have. Looking at the other saves it's there an hour later by save game time.

 

[gherardo crespi]

unfortunately I didn't keep incremental saves and now I am way past that point in the scenario,
If I see it happens again I will make sure to send the save.

 

[Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor]

Thanks for the save budd. Most illuminating. Now that little situation has the American B Coy of 8 Tk Bn assaulting the 15 man 48th Rgt HQ who is dug in in town. A no contest it should be. The Tk Coy fires alright but it's not having any appreciable effect from what I can see so far. I stepped into the Fire Event. This code was extensively overhauled by Miquel. His intent was good but the execution lacks. I can see that in effect the new code is penalising the firer excessively and increasing the defensive bonuses for the target to a degree that's not realistic. I'm going to have spend some time redoing this.

 

[Daz]

Glad your looking into it Dave.
I assume this is just effecting HQ's, because other units, except maybe mortar platoons seem about right in game at the moment?

Maybe mortars are effected by this as well, as they are a lot harder to overrun than they should be? They seem about right against indirect fire and long range direct fire, where they would probably find some kind of defilade cover.

I think mortars, IG guns, and HQ's should have boosted indirect and long range direct fire defensive stats, to represent that they don't need to be able to see the enemy to function and are most likely to be deployed in some form of local cover, even in open terrain.
Close up (within 100m depending on terrain type) they should have the same stats as similar sized infantry units, except HQ should probably have boosted morale, and stubbornness.

They should probably have their long range offensive stats reduced as well to balance the fact that they have boosted defence.
This gets problematic when the HQ with embedded armour, or IG gun has good long range stats, because they would probably be contributing to the battle at longer ranges, and not hiding in defilade, especially against armour targets.

I don't know if this kind of fidelity is possible with the AI though?

 

[Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor]

No it affects all units. It's a bloody mess at the moment. I'm not a happy chap.

 

[Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor]

Two days later and much revision of the Fire code and I believe we have fixed this issue. Now the previous sixteen super soldiers of the 48th Grenadier Regt HQ are the hapless soldiers. It took just 4 minutes for the tanks of Bravo Coy to despatch them.



Miquel had done some nice things with the fire routines but had made some serious errors as well. I think I have retained his good elements and patched up the problems to deliver a better system overall. However, I have yet to run comprehensive tests to see if the casualty results are realistic.

FIXED pending casualty testing.