Modern Rule questions (HATR)

[Anton]

Good day. After a couple of games, I have some question:


1. Could surface ATGM (for example Sagger) fire at flying or hover helicopter?

2. Could air ATGM (for example Mi24) fire at flying or hover helicopter?

3. Could AA units with only blue numbers fire at soft or hard surface target?

4. Does Leadership Modifier from leaders apply to AA weapons with blue numbers? For example, when MMC with AA Stinger fire at flying helicopter? At Air Assault scenario we have American leader +2 LM, which make AA fire for stinger a little bit unbalanced to my taste.

5. Could Helicopter fire ATGM in flying / hover mode after movement?

6. Could Helicopter with OPS complete marker OPP fire ATGM?

7. If games generated 2 Heroes which next have been killed, could the game generate additional heroes for that side?

8. In the Air Assault scenario 1 turn, if Americans failed morale check before fire or move (marked them with OPS Complete marker), could they OPP fire next? Does additional Morale Check need for such OP fire?

9. If helicopter crash onto the building, will it be rubble?

10. If helicopter crash onto the hex with buttoned armored vehicle, can it cause damage to it?

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

Wow Anton, that makes for a lot of rules question. You encoutered all those situations in your game?

1. From the core rules manual, under 19.2.5: Anti-aircraft guided weapons, which are designated with blue range, to-hit, and penetration numbers on their counter, can target flying helicopters. Non-guided weapons that use the OFT can target hovering helicopters. I'd say anti-aircraft guided weapon could hit a hovering helicopter too

2. See previous answer

3. Yes they can fire at it but it won't do antything if they hit. Take the Stinger for example. It is a infra-red (heat)-seeking missile that could probably hit a tank (no legs units) but the warhead of such a missile is designed to punched a lot of small holes in the aluminium fuselage of a plane, not to take out a tank

4. Yes

5. 19.2.8 applies: Helicopters can move and fire without restriction during their impulse. Yes, 14.4 says No units, whether vehicle or MMC, can assault move and fire an ATGM or be eligible to Opportunity fire an ATGM after having Assault moved but the rules make a distinction between vehicle and helicopter (and helicopter don't Assault move)

6. Yes. I see no restriction for Ops complete marker units using ATGM

7. Yes. You are only restricted to two heroes in play at the same time

8. I'd say no, because I think the general idea of SSR1 is for them to not do much in the first turn and allowing them Opp fire because they failed their morale check (and were marked ops complete) seems to go against this idea but that is just my take

9. No

10. For fixed-wing aircraft crash, AFVs are attacked as if they were open (as per 19.1). I'd do the same with Flying Helicopter; they even have the same FP power (6)

 

[Anton]

Stéphane, thank you! Yes, I am encountered almost all those situations during 3 games of Air Assault. It is excellent scenario. But I can’t win for Americans yet (pure solo).

I think I should have been more clear regarding point #1

I wrote:

1. Could surface ATGM (for example Sagger) fire at flying or hover helicopter?

You answered:

1. From the core rules manual, under 19.2.5: Anti-aircraft guided weapons, which are designated with blue range, to-hit, and penetration numbers on their counter, can target flying helicopters. Non-guided weapons that use the OFT can target hovering helicopters. I'd say anti-aircraft guided weapon could hit a hovering helicopter too


But the question was not regarding anti-aircraft guided weapon. It was about standard Anti-Tank-Guided-Missiles (AT-3 etc.) which launch from surface to hit hovering or flying helicopter. Is it capable to hit flying things? Thanks again!

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

Hum...I don't think standard ATGM could hit a flying helicopter but they could certainly hit a hovering one, as attested in the Syria war

 

[Jeff Lewis]

Stephane has most covered. But to reinforce or clarify, based on v5.0

1) ATGM cannot fire at flying aircraft. Only blue to-hit #s can target flying helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft.

2) Sort of a non-issue, as there are no scenarios with helicopters on both sides; though "Relief" had the option for the French to bring on a Gazelle HOT as the Soviets have a Mi-24; and I think there's a compendium scenario with SSRs for helicopter vs. helicopter combat.

But hovering can fire at hovering, if you want a ruling on the fly.

5) Helicopters don't AM, so not a problem. It must be in hover to fire ATGM.

6) Helicopter with Ops Complete, as long as hovering, can fire ATGM but: "Ops Complete helicopters
firing ordnance add two (+2) to their OFT to-hit rolls." And they can't Op Fire an ATGM in response to an enemy unit's ATGM as per 14.4

8) SSR could be better written, but yes, as per 4.1: "MMCs under an Ops Complete marker can Opportunity Fire (5.3), but subtract
one (-1) from their IFP."

9) Yes, it Rubbles it.

10) Yes, attacks with 6 FP vs. Armored vehicles (opened or buttoned) as if they are opened as per 17.2