Mortars that are SWs

[Carlos S. Olivares Pérez]

Some doubts about rule 1.6.2 of HotP "The Mortar fires as per 18.1 with the following two exceptions:
1. The Mortar can ONLY fire indirectly if the unit crewing the Mortar is ADJACENT to a friendly unit that has a
clear LOS to the target".

Imagine the situation of the image. The Japanese activate hex B2.



Here are my doubts:

1. Has the spotter to be a Leader or may be any unit, as the MMC on C2?
2. Let's suppose that on C2 there is a valid spotter. The mortar fires against the US unit on E3. But what happens with the unit that possess the mortar? A unit has to fire in the same Impulse as their SWs, and to the same objective (exception of ordnance), but it this case the MMC cannot fire against E3 because there is no LOS between them.
3. May these mortars place Starshells? Regarding this, it seems that the Leader/Hero may place a Starshell within three hexes of its position, while the mortar only within 2 (plus any in its LOS under Fired), is this right?

 

[Keith T]

1. the Knee mortar has an exception -

1. The Mortar can ONLY fire indirectly
if the unit crewing the Mortar is ADJACENT
to a friendly unit that has a
clear LOS to the target. Weapon Teams
cannot direct the Mortar’s fire.

So I read that as any unit that is adjacent to the mortar unit and has a clear LOS

The 18.1 about the leader is as long as the leader has LOS, not that he is adjacent to the unit with the mortar. I believe this is to simulate that he is calling in a mortar strike. Say with a radio...

 

[Carlos S. Olivares Pérez]

I agree with you, Keith. So, we can say that the Spotter of a mortar that is a SW (as the Japanese 50 mm or the Britan 51 mm):

• Must have LOS to the objective.
• Must be adjacent to the mortar.
• May be any unit (as the rules do not say anything more, this unit may even be Shaken or under Fire).
• Is not marked under Ops Complete after calling the Indirect Fire.

 

[Keith T]

- For los, I think the rules for los and spotting still apply.
- Adjacent
- any unit
- shaken, under fire, ops complete. I believe would still fall under the los and spotting rules.


"I'm not an expert, but I play one on tv"

 

[Carlos S. Olivares Pérez]

My answers for the rest of questions are:

2. When doing Indirect Fire, these mortars-SW fire separately like ordnance (during the same Impulse but to a different objective).
3. No idea. For simplicity, I would assume that mortars-SW cannot place Starshells.

 

[Jeff Lewis]

Some doubts about rule 1.6.2 of HotP "The Mortar fires as per 18.1 with the following two exceptions:
1. The Mortar can ONLY fire indirectly if the unit crewing the Mortar is ADJACENT to a friendly unit that has a
clear LOS to the target".

Imagine the situation of the image. The Japanese activate hex B2.

0

Here are my doubts:

1. Has the spotter to be a Leader or may be any unit, as the MMC on C2?
2. Let's suppose that on C2 there is a valid spotter. The mortar fires against the US unit on E3. But what happens with the unit that possess the mortar? A unit has to fire in the same Impulse as their SWs, and to the same objective (exception of ordnance), but it this case the MMC cannot fire against E3 because there is no LOS between them.
3. May these mortars place Starshells? Regarding this, it seems that the Leader/Hero may place a Starshell within three hexes of its position, while the mortar only within 2 (plus any in its LOS under Fired), is this right?

First, Carlos, you can't fire a 50mm Mortar SW from a Heavy Jungle hex, which B2 is, so your example is flawed on that premise. But still, I'll proceed as if it was not.

1) Any friendly unit. A Squad qualifies as "friendly unit". I think it's ipso facto that it's MMC/SMC/vehicle and that I don't have to write that abandoned friendly SWs can't spot for indirect fire?

2) The unit that fired it forfeits its IFP attack. Bad tactics on display here.

3) No Starshells.

 

[Warren Smith]

First, Carlos, you can't fire a 50mm Mortar SW from a Heavy Jungle hex, which B2 is, so your example is flawed on that premise. But still, I'll proceed as if it was not.

1) Any friendly unit. A Squad qualifies as "friendly unit". I think it's ipso facto that it's MMC/SMC/vehicle and that I don't have to write that abandoned friendly SWs can't spot for indirect fire?

What about the above post that suggested a Shaken unit could spot for the mortar. I'm new to the game, but to me that doesn't seem right. Is it intended that Shaken units can spot?

 

[Jeff Lewis]

What about the above post that suggested a Shaken unit could spot for the mortar. I'm new to the game, but to me that doesn't seem right. Is it intended that Shaken units can spot?

Any friendly unit. Doesn't matter if it's Shaken.

 

[Carlos S. Olivares Pérez]

First, Carlos, you can't fire a 50mm Mortar SW from a Heavy Jungle hex, which B2 is, so your example is flawed on that premise.

You're right. I did not notice that! That is why I am a mere soldier and a lieutenant you are.

Excuse the nuisance, but what about the thing about that the Leader/Hero may place a Starshell within three hexes of its position, while the mortar-WT only within 2 (plus any in its LOS under Fired)?

 

[Jeff Lewis]

You're right. I did not notice that! That is why I am a mere soldier and a lieutenant you are.

Excuse the nuisance, but what about the thing about that the Leader/Hero may place a Starshell within three hexes of its position, while the mortar-WT only within 2 (plus any in its LOS under Fired)?

I'm not sure what you mean about the Starshells via Leader/Scout call-in. It's clear-cut. The Mortar WT can fire a Starshell but a GO Leader or Scout has to call it in. The Leader/Scout can place it within 2 hexes of himself or in any hex in his LOS under a Fired marker (no roll; it's automatic). What's the confusion? Is that if the Leader himself fired a Starshell it could be up to 3 hexes? And thus why 2 for when called-in from a Mortar WT? It's two different methods. And from the Mortar WT it's automatic, like I said--no roll. I don't know what else to tell you or what you want to read from me on this matter.

 

[Carlos S. Olivares Pérez]

As I usually think that rules try to simulate real situations, I was just wondering if that difference simulated something.

 

[Andrew Stewart]

Any friendly unit. Doesn't matter if it's Shaken.

But Rule 5.1 (DFT Results) states Shaken units cannot spot

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

The friendly (shaken) unit is not spotting (and is not required to), it just need to have a clear LOS to the target hex

 

[Jeff Lewis]

But Rule 5.1 (DFT Results) states Shaken units cannot spot

They are "calling in" not spotting.

 

[Andrew Stewart]

Sorry, but where's "calling in" in the rules - is this something I'm missing? And isn't that just another word for "spotting" in a real world situation.
Under 18.1 Onboard mortars "can .. fire indirectly at targets to which a LEADER has a LOS....against a hex they[the Leader] SPOTTED..."

Under 10.1 LOS & Spotting: "To be able to fire on an enemy-occupied hex, it must be spotted" This is a basic principle of the LNL rules, isn't it?

 

[Andrew Stewart]

I've just realised that this is sort of a moot point because a Japanese unit WOULDN'T be Shaken

The target hex would STILL have to be SPOTTED though to be fired on!!!

 

[Jeff Lewis]

Sorry, but where's "calling in" in the rules - is this something I'm missing? And isn't that just another word for "spotting" in a real world situation.
Under 18.1 Onboard mortars "can .. fire indirectly at targets to which a LEADER has a LOS....against a hex they[the Leader] SPOTTED..."

Under 10.1 LOS & Spotting: "To be able to fire on an enemy-occupied hex, it must be spotted" This is a basic principle of the LNL rules, isn't it?

Andrew, there are exceptions to rules throughout the rules. In the case at hand, (spotting and calling-in) are two separate and distinct actions/conditions. The unit calling-in the Starshell is calling it into an area, just like OBA (18.2) for which the calling-in unit only needs LOS (and yes I know we are talking about onboard Mortars here, but this illustrates the concept). At night your LOS is two hexes or units under a Fired marker (spotted by Fired marker; and provided no blocking terrain is in between, etc.). The hexes within two hexes technically don't need to be spotted b/c you don't have to spot the sky, where the Starshell is intended to do its job.

The word "call" or "call-in" is in 20.1.4, 18.1 and 18.2.

 

[Andrew Stewart]

OK thanks for that - rereading 18.2 underlines the difference between on-board indirect & off board indirect fire re. calling & spotting.
I was only considering the onboard HE fire from the mortar in the above situation (& not Starshells as I know that's a different mechanic).