Old ruleset

[super_bruno]

hi! I would very much like to get my hands on the older rules version of lnl. I have version 4.1 and version 3.1.

DOes someone have the pdf to version 1 and version 2?

Thanks!

 

[Rydo]

I don't think the pdf version exist as of i know.
I have rules v2 from A day of heroes but they are printed on paper.
The only way to obtain the version 1 is to purchase their first module about vietnam ( 2003 edition ).
I really don't know much about this legendary rulebook. The only interesting and rather OP thing i know was the ability, in rules v1, to divide one Full Squad into two Half Squads.
I would love to have it and maybe i will in the future.
Bye.

 

[Trent Garner]

Gentlemen,

What you see in the photo here is the original rulebook that comes with the first Lock 'N Load title, Forgotten Heroes, produced by Shrapnel Games in 2003. This particular one is from my personal copy of that game. Unfortunately, copyright laws prevent me from creating a PDF copy for anything but personal use, without the express permission of Shrapnel Games. However, if you have any specific questions regarding this rulebook, I would be happy to try and answer them for you.

An interesting bit of trivia here, the original rule book is printed entirely in black & white, with just 20.5 pages of actual rules. There are also six pages of gameplay examples in the back, along with a single-page glossary. With two pages for the Table of Contents and a front and back cover, the total comes to 29 pages, cover to cover. That is barely 1/4 the size of the v4.1 rulebook!! The LNLT series has definitely evolved over the years.

 

[Rydo]

Gentlemen,

What you see in the photo here is the original rulebook that comes with the first Lock 'N Load title, Forgotten Heroes, produced by Shrapnel Games in 2003. This particular one is from my personal copy of that game. Unfortunately, copyright laws prevent me from creating a PDF copy for anything but personal use, without the express permission of Shrapnel Games. However, if you have any specific questions regarding this rulebook, I would be happy to try and answer them for you.

An interesting bit of trivia here, the original rule book is printed entirely in black & white, with just 20.5 pages of actual rules. There are also six pages of gameplay examples in the back, along with a single-page glossary. With two pages for the Table of Contents and a front and back cover, the total comes to 29 pages, cover to cover. That is barely 1/4 the size of the v4.1 rulebook!! The LNLT series has definitely evolved over the years.

WOW! Its like watching a relic from the ancient times.
Now that you're here, can i ask you a few questions regarding these medieval rules?
#1 : It is real that we can divide a full squad into two half squads? If so, how it works?
#2 : The Vehicles worked like they work in today's rules?
#3 : What are other main differences from todays rules?
#4 : You are bored of answering these questions?

Thank you Trent!

 

[Trent Garner]

#1 : A Good Order Squad in a hex with a Good Order leader may split into two Half-Squads

This rule is part of the Rally Rules in the original rulebook and comes
right after the rule that says two Good Order Half-Squads of same nation
and IB can be combined into a single Squad if with a Good Order Leader


#2 : Vehicles work the same in the original book as in the current rules, there are no obvious
differences. Vehicles rules are still very lengthy and cover many pages.


#3 : The original rulebook is very short by comparison to the current rules, at only 29 pages for the entire
book. There is a lot more clarity and a lot less ambiguity in today's Modern Era rulebook, but it is also
much longer.The original rulebook is also written specifically for the Vietnam game being depicted, so
there are some rules for US, ARVN, NVA and Viet Cong units, which are the national characteristics.
These would be located in the module-specific rule books for LNLT games printed today.

#4 : I'm happy to be of help

 

[David Heath]

Another reason the current rules has more pages is that we use more examples and a larger font to make it easier to read.

David

 

[Trent Garner]

It's actually kind of neat to go back through the various rule book iterations to see how the game has evolved over the years. However, I would definitely say the current, full color rule books are the best, without a doubt.

 

[Rydo]

#1 : A Good Order Squad in a hex with a Good Order leader may split into two Half-Squads

This rule is part of the Rally Rules in the original rulebook and comes
right after the rule that says two Good Order Half-Squads of same nation
and IB can be combined into a single Squad if with a Good Order Leader


#2 : Vehicles work the same in the original book as in the current rules, there are no obvious
differences. Vehicles rules are still very lengthy and cover many pages.


#3 : The original rulebook is very short by comparison to the current rules, at only 29 pages for the entire
book. There is a lot more clarity and a lot less ambiguity in today's Modern Era rulebook, but it is also
much longer.The original rulebook is also written specifically for the Vietnam game being depicted, so
there are some rules for US, ARVN, NVA and Viet Cong units, which are the national characteristics.
These would be located in the module-specific rule books for LNLT games printed today.

#4 : I'm happy to be of help

Thank you for asnwering them all! You won a hug, ur happy?

But going back to the split of a full squad, now i see why they made the USMC 3-6-4 and 2-6-4 and why there were USMC 2-5-4 and 1-5-4 half squads. When a unit splits in two its firepower were to be equally divided? Because a 3-6-4 MMc would logically became a 2-5-4 and 1-5-4 Half squad or spawn two 2-5-4? It would be broken as hell, i immagine if the rule is still used today : ADOH a ranger 3-6-4 split into two 2-5-4 halfs and get an extra firepower out of nowhere

You used this rule back in the day with good tactical use??

Regards!

 

[super_bruno]

In fact, I was quite curious to see how the rules have evolved over the years. I read a few pages of the latest version and my eyes glazed over when I read the rules about jamming, with the different rule when you play in the sand. I didn't remember the jamming rules from previous versions so I wanted to see for myself if my memory was right. And then I wanted to compare the complexity of each version of the rules.

 

[Trent Garner]

I have not played with this rule since way back when, to be honest. As I recall, we did use this rule occasionally to some advantage, usually splitting one full squad just before moving into an assault. Throw a Hero in for the extra column shift and you've got yourself a close-combat juggernaut!

Used without thought or consideration could cause trouble sometimes, too. More units often means more work for your leaders as they try to keep everyone in Good Order, especially if you spread your units out a lot. It can be more trouble than it's worth to try and herd a bunch of shaken units closer to a leader who has better things to do, like leading combat effectives and improving their chances to succeed.

 

[Jeff Lewis]

WOW! Its like watching a relic from the ancient times.
Now that you're here, can i ask you a few questions regarding these medieval rules?
#1 : It is real that we can divide a full squad into two half squads? If so, how it works?
#2 : The Vehicles worked like they work in today's rules?
#3 : What are other main differences from todays rules?
#4 : You are bored of answering these questions?

Thank you Trent!

#1 is no longer allowed. Main reason is countermix limitations. In Heroes of North Africa is a Skill called Flexible, which allows this, though.

 

[Trent Garner]

Thanks for the information Jeff, that is very interesting. Does the skill work for both the Axis and Allied forces, or is it specific to one side only?

For the sake of argument, let's say it works for the German Afrika Korps full strength Squad of 3-3-4-6. As Rydo pointed out, this squad will break down into two half-squads of 2-2-4-6 each. If these two half-squads fired together in ranged combat, they would have the same FP3 as the full strength squad. But in melee combat these two units together are FP 4!

Looking at the nationality chart for HoNA units, there are no others as powerful as der Afrika Korps. Most full strength squads have only FP1, some have FP2, but these all break down into two half-squads that each have FP1. This option can certainly be worthy of consideration under the right circumstances.

 

[Jeff Lewis]

Thanks for the information Jeff, that is very interesting. Does the skill work for both the Axis and Allied forces, or is it specific to one side only?

For the sake of argument, let's say it works for the German Afrika Korps full strength Squad of 3-3-4-6. As Rydo pointed out, this squad will break down into two half-squads of 2-2-4-6 each. If these two half-squads fired together in ranged combat, they would have the same FP3 as the full strength squad. But in melee combat these two units together are FP 4!

Looking at the nationality chart for HoNA units, there are no others as powerful as der Afrika Korps. Most full strength squads have only FP1, some have FP2, but these all break down into two half-squads that each have FP1. This option can certainly be worthy of consideration under the right circumstances.

The Flexible Skill is for either side. It's also a single-use Skill. This isn't something that's going to be done rampantly. And Rydo's example further demonstrates why it's no longer a blanket rule.

The German Squads in Heroes of North Africa are 1-6-4-5. Not sure where you're getting your information RE the 3-3-4-6. Their Half-squads are 1-5-4-5 only. However, the Skill notes that Squads must observe normal Squad Reduction breakdown if there are two different types of Half-squads, e.g., a 1-5-4 and a 0-5-4. You thus would have to roll and would risk getting a pair of 0-5-4. This affects the Brits and Italians.

 

[Trent Garner]

Thanks for the clarification Jeff. I was looking at the new nationality charts and I was thinking about Fallschirmjager, not Afrika Korps, sorry about that everyone. It was late when I posted last night and I was a bit tired.