Supply Problem

[Daz]

This is an image from the end of the scenario I have just played "Gamble and Scramble".
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/gamble-and-scramble-playing-as-allies.1881/

It shows a unit that was cut of from supply early in the scenario, but no attempt was made to resupply it again.

The main reason for this post is that there is a problem with the Supply Lines indicator, which is green, indicating that the unit is in supply, when it is clearly not.

A secondary reason is to try and determine why there has been no attempt to resupply the unit once the supply lines have been reopened.

I was also wondering if the reason the unit went out of supply, is because it is deployed in an area that is inaccessible to vehicles.
Its organic base is close by but does not seem to have any manpack capabilities and the terrain us very rugged.

I would also like to make a request that units that have maxed out on fatigue are still able to move, albeit at a greatly reduced combat effectiveness, and speed, in order to bring them back into supply.
A button to request emergency supply for a unit, would also be useful to restart supply when you think the unit has established a clear route back to its base, instead of having to wait for the next routine supply attempt.

If you would like a save, at what time would it be most useful to you?

 

[Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor]

First off fatigue will only ever reduce a unit's speed by 30%. It will only stop it if the unit reassesses to recover from fatigue. So that is probably what is happening. But I would need a save to confirm that. I also need a save to determine why its resupply is not getting through. What is interesting about the unit log that there are no more resupply requests being made. I really need a save to investigate why.

 

[simovitch]

I remember some code added to stop sending supply to units that are cut off to preserve the convoys from suicide interdictions. I wonder if this is what happens here. You probably need a save just before the 0600 or 1800 event.

 

[Daz]

Your absolutely right about being able to move a unit that has maxed out on fatigue Dave, I do apologise.
They will move about 500m before they stop again, after what I guess is the reassessment you mentioned.

In order to make them move again you have to reorder the move and wait for the orders delay before they will move again, which is quite acceptable in my opinion, as it simulates them taking a 30 min breather and giving the CO time to kick them back on their feet again,

I have sent 3 saves with regard to the supply situation not restarting after it is suspended.
Please also look into sorting out the supply lines and in supply unit indicator, to give an accurate reading as to the supply situation.

Its bad enough not having as much user feedback on the supply situation as I would like, without what little we have, giving false information.

 

[GoodGuy]

I remember some code added to stop sending supply to units that are cut off to preserve the convoys from suicide interdictions. I wonder if this is what happens here. You probably need a save just before the 0600 or 1800 event.

Yep, I remember that, too. Users complained about unusual/unrealistic numbers of vehicle losses, and that's where the code was added (for a reason, imho).

 

[Daz]

There was indeed code put in to suspend supply to cut of units, in order to prevent the total loss of the supply vehicles in a Base.
I never for one moment thought that the fix would be almost as bad as the original problem.

What's the point in having vehicles in the Base if the units are still not getting supply?
Say your Parachute infantry Regiment gets cut off from supply on day one of a nine day scenario for a few hours, then it never restarts again?
What's the point in saving the vehicles?

Since the code was put in place I always assumed that the supply would restart once the supply line had been re-established.
I don't know anything about the code, but I assumed this would be accomplished by the AI putting out dummy supply runs with no vehicles when requested by the cut off unit, to ascertain when it was back in supply. Then send a real one once the Base had established a clear supply route.
At the very worst I expected that there may be a forced 12 hour pause in the supply to give the supply routes a chance to be cleared before another cautious attempt at resupply.
Never did I think that the supply would be cut for the rest of the scenario, even if the suspended unit moves right next to the fully stocked base.
That's why I posted it in the support section of the forum because I never realised it was working as designed.

Better move it to the Future Features Request section then I guess.

 

[Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor]

Daz,

OK I have checked out the code relating to suspending resupply. If a unit requests resupply the depot calls a function called HasRecentResupplyLosses(). This checks the units last supply record and if this was within 48 hours and the unit has not changed its location by more than 500m and it took casualties, then it returns true and the request is ignored. Now this unit in question ( D Coy 2/6 AU INF Bn ) in the first save you gave me suspended resupply at D4, 0307. However the supply run that got wiped out occurred at D3 2201 so its 48 hour suspension is not due to expire till D5 2201.

I chose 48 hours to minimise the number of supply column losses. Remember the idea was to prevent the AI sending off these supply columns to a unit where they were going to take casualties. I could reduce it down to 24 hours but I am loathe to reduce below that.

The other issue though is why the supply line was not redrawn to show that it had been cut. I'll look further into that.

 

[Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor]

Daz, do you have a save from that game that was before D4 0307 when the line was suspended?

 

[Daz]

Thanks for looking into it Dave.
You should have received 3 saves from me in separate emails on the 27th July.
GnS D5 0537, GnS D5 0928, and GnS D6 1000.

GnS D5 0928 was taken after I had managed to move the unit with a series of short moves (exhausted out of supply units can only be moved in short increments before they rest) right next to its base a distance of well over 500m.
I also ran the scenario right to the end at D7 2359 and still no attempt was made to resupply, that's well over the 48 hour suspension.

I personally would like to see another resupply event after 24 hours of its supply being suspended and to remove the 500m rule.
The reason for this being that the supply route will likely be cleared by other units and if the unit is out of fuel it will not be able to move.
Would like to hear from others if there reading, on their opinion for this, especially Peter.

Ill look for another save before the suspension when I get back from work.

 

[Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor]

I'm not going to get rid of the 500m rule because this at least allows the unit to move and then place an emergency request. In other words moving will lift the suspension. What I am trying to detect is why the supply line status is still set to "open" instead of "cut". It should have been set to cut when it was suspended. But I need then to determine what reset it back. that's why I need a save or a recording that occurs before the suspension.

 

[Daz]

Ahh... I thought the 500m rule was an "as well as" a 48 hour suspension.
I never realized it lifted it. That's good news.
It still never lifted it in this scenario though, and neither did the expiration of the 48 hour suspension, so it still needs fixing, yes?

 

[Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor]

As I said what I really need is a save from before the original suspension.

 

[Daz]

Nearest I have is D3 0837

I will play it through to try and recreate it with a recording and some saves.
Probably not tonight though, but will have more time tomorrow.

 

[Dave 'Arjuna' O'Connor]

Thanks Daz.

 

[Daz]

This bug, where supply that is suspended and not re-started, is still prevailing in version 5.1.28.

I have lots of saves from a Manhay Crossroads scenario I have just played.
If you tell me at what points in time you need a save, I will try to dig out the nearest ones to the problem.

I know you need one before the suspension and I guess just after. Do you also need one 24 hours after that or later?

 

[Daz]

I have designed a scenario to try and replicate this bug because its so hard to reproduce while playing the game.

As you can see from the image I have modified the Manhay map to create a supply corridor along the main road that is interdicted by an enemy unit situated in the middle of Manhay, which is in the middle of the supply corridor.
The Axis (enemy) has been set up with a defend objective in Manhay that expires at D2 12:00. The unit there is then supposed to retreat to another defend objective at End of the Line, which is where you can see 2SS Div HQ on the map.
So I was hoping that A Coy 40 Tank Bn and its HQ at Need Food in the south of the corridor, would have their supply suspended then re-opened once 3 Coy 1SS pull back from Manhay.

As you can see by looking at the force log for A Coy 40 Tank Bn, supply was on its way at D2 06:34 but somehow it got through and arrived at D2 08:20
This is a very hard bug to test without the Dev tool to enable easy manipulation and monitoring of both sides.
Is there any chance one of the bug testers is willing to look into it?
I can supply the test map and scenario, or its quite easy to make one up. It didn't take me long.

 

[Daz]

This is another surrender image from earlier, when the supply is on its way, showing the route it is taking.

 

[Daz]

Another two surrender images later in the scenario. This time showing the supply route as green during its 'on the way' phase.
The first image shows that the idea of an expiring (D2 12:00) defend order on Manhay, in the hope of the having them withdraw to End of Line is not going to work, as they have actually reinforced it.

Supply is miraculously still getting through though

 

[simovitch]

I can take a look at this if you can get the files to me. Assuming you are patched up to current.

 

[Daz]

Thanks Richard.
Can you PM me your email please mate, or dropbox or something?
You will need the map, the scenario and a save from the test I assume?