Advice on coordination, please

[BarryJI]

As you can see here, playing as the Allies, I want 1 Bn to attack the Groesbeek objective from the north and 2 Bn from the east. The game is paused. The problem is that I cannot quite figure out from the Task window how to coordinate things so that both forces assault at about the same time.

Here are my specific questions:

- The End time given (19:17) seems unrealistic. In fact, from a previous playthrough, I know that it won't take 1 Bn as long as this to complete its attack maneuver.

- Delaying the Start time for 2 Bn, whose route to the objective is shorter, does not adjust -- while the game is paused, anyway -- the End time listed in its Task window.

- Unchecking the Auto option beside the Assault At field and then delaying the Start time (for 2 Bn) does not produce a corresponding delay in the end time.

I may be missing something simple here. I know the subject is covered on p88 of the manual but I am baffled by my input on Start times (or Assault At) not being reflected in the output times in the Task interface. It might also be the case that I need to un-pause the game to allow it to make the necessary timing adjustments that will then be reflected in the Task windows for both Bns. And I suppose I could just launch these Attack maneuvers "on the fly" and hope for the best. However, I know the game provides a proper method to achieve precision in coordinating maneuvers in advance; I just can't seem to figure it out. Guidance would be much appreciated.

 

[jimcarravallah]

As you can see here, playing as the Allies, I want 1 Bn to attack the Groesbeek objective from the north and 2 Bn from the east. The game is paused. The problem is that I cannot quite figure out from the Task window how to coordinate things so that both forces assault at about the same time.

Here are my specific questions:

- The End time given (19:17) seems unrealistic. In fact, from a previous playthrough, I know that it won't take 1 Bn as long as this to complete its attack maneuver.

- Delaying the Start time for 2 Bn, whose route to the objective is shorter, does not adjust -- while the game is paused, anyway -- the End time listed in its Task window.

- Unchecking the Auto option beside the Assault At field and then delaying the Start time (for 2 Bn) does not produce a corresponding delay in the end time.

I may be missing something simple here. I know the subject is covered on p88 of the manual but I am baffled by my input on Start times (or Assault At) not being reflected in the output times in the Task interface. It might also be the case that I need to un-pause the game to allow it to make the necessary timing adjustments that will then be reflected in the Task windows for both Bns. And I suppose I could just launch these Attack maneuvers "on the fly" and hope for the best. However, I know the game provides a proper method to achieve precision in coordinating maneuvers in advance; I just can't seem to figure it out. Guidance would be much appreciated.

The image didn't show, but my guess is you didn't order a "pause" by issuing the attacking forces a "reorg" task before the attack.

To calculate a rough timetable, here's how I'd do it.to maintain control::

1) Using the routing tool, estimate the amount of time it would take each attacking force to move to the point from which you want it to begin the attack.

2) Issue a "move" and "reorg" sequence of tasks to the force which will require the longest time to arrive at the reorganization point.

3) Issue a "move" and "reorg" sequence of tasks to the second force, delaying the start to account for the added time the first force would require to arrive at it's jump off point.

4) Run the game until each force arrives at its jump off point and has completed it's reorganization.

5) Pause the game, issue each force a separate attack order, and watch the action.

As an alternative, you could do the same sequencing and issue a "move", "reorg" and "attack" order after accounting for the second force delay, but it leaves you open to a lack of desired coordination if each or either of the forces is delayed along the route, or by a slowrt reorganization than the other force's reorganization during the movement / attack sequence.

 

[BarryJI]

This is not the first time you've helped me, Jim and I really appreciate it, thank you.

I will stage this two-prong attack exactly as you suggest and see if I can get it to work as desired.

Odd that the screenshot doesn't show up. It does on my PC, in both my original post and in your post which quotes mine, but on my phone all is see is IMG in squared brackets.

Thank you once again.

 

[jimcarravallah]

This is not the first time you've helped me, Jim and I really appreciate it, thank you.

I will stage this two-prong attack exactly as you suggest and see if I can get it to work as desired.

Odd that the screenshot doesn't show up. It does on my PC, in both my original post and in your post which quotes mine, but on my phone all is see is IMG in squared brackets.

Thank you once again.

It may be forum permissions.

I'm working on Windows 10 in a PC, and get the same image you indicate you see on the phone.

I tried opening the image in a new tab and got this message:

"
Error (401)
It seems you don't belong here! Check out our Help Center and forums for help, or head back to home."

I believe there's some form of a waiting period or a required message count before LnL allows files attached to a message in the forum to be broadcast.

It may show up as information cached on your computer, but not as information made available via the forum.

 

[GoodGuy]

2) Issue a "move" and "reorg" sequence of tasks to the force which will require the longest time to arrive at the reorganization point.

Game not installed atm and I can't remember anymore ... can you set a time for the reorg as well? The 2 groups could also be sent to reorg at the desired FUPs, followed by a defend (in-situ) order, so that Barryll just has to watch/wait until both units have finished their reoganization. Once they have switched to the defend task (and deployed), they could be sent to attack with slightly different attack times to compensate for the different distances to the objective.
Example: March to the FUP during the night, reorg and then order an attack in early a.m.
Is there a general problem with updating/displaying the correct timetable, or does it just occur when the game is paused?
It would be desirable to have an accurate table in paused mode, too, to ease planning of more complex attacks.

 

[jimcarravallah]

Game not installed atm and I can't remember anymore ... can you set a time for the reorg as well? The 2 groups could also be sent to reorg at the desired FUPs, followed by a defend (in-situ) order, so that Barryll just has to watch/wait until both units have finished their reoganization. Once they have switched to the defend task (and deployed), they could be sent to attack with slightly different attack times to compensate for the different distances to the objective.
Example: March to the FUP during the night, reorg and then order an attack in early a.m.
Is there a general problem with updating/displaying the correct timetable, or does it just occur when the game is paused?
It would be desirable to have an accurate table in paused mode, too, to ease planning of more complex attacks.

The controlling factor on a "reorg" is when it's completed and the unit is ready for the next order.

Issuing the reorg order to two different units to start at the same time wouldn't account for any time penalties one of the units would incur for differences like having lower training or morale, lower cohesion, higher fatigue, or lower command efficiency among others.

Thus, a "reorg" order in effect becomes a "pause until ready for the next order" control and should be allowed to be carried until completion until two or more units' activities can be coordinated.

 

[GoodGuy]

The controlling factor on a "reorg" is when it's completed and the unit is ready for the next order.

Issuing the reorg order to two different units to start at the same time wouldn't account for any time penalties one of the units would incur for differences like having lower training or morale, lower cohesion, higher fatigue, or lower command efficiency among others.

That's why I wrote that a reorg and subsequent defend order would be a better option, as there are too many factors (you call them penalties) with an impact on the duration of the reorg. Barryll would then just have to wait for both units to execute the final defend task, and he could then issue his timed attack orders.
If I am not mistaken, units in "waiting" mode (after a reorg) had (or caused?) problems in one of the installments (supply chain, maybe?) and acted sensitive when caught in surprise attacks, IIRC.
Whatsoever, can you time a reorg nowadays, and what about defense tasks?

 

[jimcarravallah]

That's why I wrote that a reorg and subsequent defend order would be a better option, as there are too many factors (you call them penalties) with an impact on the duration of the reorg. Barryll would then just have to wait for both units to execute the final defend task, and he could then issue his timed attack orders.
If I am not mistaken, units in "waiting" mode (after a reorg) had (or caused?) problems in one of the installments (supply chain, maybe?) and acted sensitive when caught in surprise attacks, IIRC.
Whatsoever, can you time a reorg nowadays, and what about defense tasks?

The defend order may be worthwhile for the first unit which arrived at its jump off point, because it would be in a better situation to survive an attack while waiting for the second unit to reorganize, or if the multi-unit attack was to be timed to start at a specific phase of the day (begin moving at midnight and attack at dawn for example).

But, since the reorg task is designed to reflect the unit's effort to recover cohesion while switching from one formation or task to another, putting in a defend order adds complexity without providing much benefit to the end result particularly if the overall effort was to take place in the least amount of time with the highest efficiency.

 

[BarryJI]

This is a very useful discussion, gents, thanks!

There is certainly an “art” to getting coordinated maneuvers right, especially later in the scenario when the time delays are greater and less predictable.

I am going to re-read the section in the manual about multi-force attacks.

I do wonder about the wildly inaccurate end-time estimations in the Task windows. My assumption has been that these are progressive and can only be accurately compiled with the game running (vs paused) but I am not at all sure if this is the case. Start times are generally accurate, with slips accurately reported but perhaps sometimes there are just too many variables for anything but the most conservative end-time to be posted?