EW on units not on the map

[Starman]

In many of the video playthroughs EW rolls are not being carried out when units are off map , correct if hidden placement but wrong if in HQ/SW Holding box IMO the rule should also include those Formations held on End Operations card.

5.2 EW Effects
The player who wins the card may place an Electronic Warfare marker on an enemy HQ unit on the map or in the enemy HQ/SW Holding Box or on End Operations Card The card is then discarded.



It does give extra weight to my alternative to placing HQs on held out End Operations cards.

Without extra counters the easiest solution is to hold out the formation card(s) shuffled face down and select one after each end of operations comes out, if any left when the triggering end of turn then draw one and shuffle the end of operations back in , obviously if only the held out formations remain just play them in order.

 

[Keith Tracton]

I have EDITED this, the below is INCORRECT. Below is the correct clarification!

----- INCORRECT
I have to stick to my guns on this one: HQs in the HQ/SW holding box are not yet reconstituted to be affected by EW until they deploy. Same for HQs on the End Ops card(s): in effect, these are in an extension of the holding box. EW is powerful enough for on-map HQs; I have no problem with it being weakened this way. Not my favorite implementation, because its a little gamey, but I am willing to accept that because of EW's power when it is effective. Crosses the border of realism versus playability for me. Consequently, I do not feel anyone is being "robbed" by not being able to play EW on a force that does not yet have its HQ on the map anyways. Not so much for HQs in the holding Box, but for those on the End Ops card(s) which are already penalized for simply not activating the previous turn (they would have had to have been removed from the map, denying their units a bonus if Op-Firing, for example). It just adds injury to, well, injury. So it will have to stand, though I appreciate the exploration!

I can only say about the alternative to placing HQs that my preference is still to place the HQs. I prefer not to have to manipulate the Formation deck and reshuffle any more than is already necessary, sorry! :-(

-----

------- USE THIS ------
The rule as written is:


"5.2 EW Effects

The player who wins the card may place an Electronic Warfare marker on an enemy HQ unit on the map or in the enemy HQ/SW Holding Box"


And that is where it stands. You may NOT place an EW marker on an HQ on an End Ops card. The rules do not say you can, so you can't, a paraphrasing of the the catch-all rule from the Important Note in 1.5 Game Play:


Sorry for the confusion and enjoy!

 

[Starman]

Keith you are missing my point the rules state that HQs in the HQ/SW box are affected by EW which is why I thought that HQs on End Operations card should also be affected.

I was directly quoting from the rules at the foot of the left hand column on page 35, the rule reads under the heading 5.2 Electronic Warfare.

"The player who wins the card may place an Electronic Warfare marker on an enemy HQ unit on the map or in the enemy HQ/SW Holding Box. The card is then discarded."

EDIT The rules as written are how it has been played, apart from the recent excellent Giessen videos by The Oaken Gamer. Examples do show EW counter played on a HQ in the HQ/SW holding box.
This includes the Bootcamp videos on WaW85 about a minute or so into video 4 (eidetic memory , though age is making it less efficient)

Why the change in mechanics ?

It would also help to clarify it is a roll per player and people are not playing that way.

I always saw it as more than just an HQ being impacted , communications beyond the immediate battlefield , it was just represented by targeting an individual HQ. An alternative would be the next Formation drawn would be the HQ impacted , that would save a dice roll, just kidding...while we are on the subject of alternative rules.

If only one side is on the map and then other wide has an HQ on an End Operation card it does seem strange that it penalises the other side, which is a third reason for an alternative.

As for reshuffling in the suggested alternative, the only time there will be additional shuffling will be if more than one formation fails to activate in a turn/operations phase and its 1 extra shuffle per 2 extra formation held out , none for 1 , 1 for 2 , 2 for 3-4 :-
1 .Hold formation card out when you shuffle the pack so if more than 1 you have a slight reshuffle.
2. When first End Operation is drawn, discard it and play a held out formation
3. If there is still any Formations held out then when the 2nd End Operation card is drawn shuffle both back in and play the next held formation card. (When all held formations drawn this would happen currently)

Even in big games it is rarely more than 2 held out and if both End Operations are drawn before any formation activations I used to just advance the turn and put them back in the cup , now I would reshuffle.

I wouldn't disagree with reconstituting HQs but those on End Operations are only there to facilitate a game mechanic as an aide memoire not for any other reason.

Themewise they could be in disarray / relocating / impacted by a sniper etc... but this isnt mentioned in any notes as are almost every other aspect of the game and Formation activation is a fundamental part of WaW85.

I do not really have any axe to grind as the chaos of battle can disrupt command and control and it should balance out.

Also as my game has not arrived I have still not had a chance to check it out though.

PS I almost resisted ignoring that you are not sticking to your guns but fumbling the draw, sorry.

 

[Keith Tracton]

LOL I just reread this and it looks I stuck to my guns and shot down a crow, and now I must eat it: the quote below from these posts is INCORRECT, for multiple reasons and should be totally disregarded. I will edit it above as well. Sigh. ;-)


"I have to stick to my guns on this one: HQs in the HQ/SW holding box are not yet reconstituted to be affected by EW until they deploy. Same for HQs on the End Ops card(s): in effect, these are in an extension of the holding box. EW is powerful enough for on-map HQs; I have no problem with it being weakened this way."


I got confused and, as a designer, was thinking of a previous iteration of the rule (there were MANY).


The rule as written is:


"5.2 EW Effects

The player who wins the card may place an Electronic Warfare marker on an enemy HQ unit on the map or in the enemy HQ/SW Holding Box"


And that is where it stands. You may NOT place an EW marker on an HQ on an End Ops card. The rules do not say you can, so you can't, a paraphrasing of the the catch-all rule from the Important Note in 1.5 Game Play:


Sorry for the confusion and enjoy!