Forced Disembark and Op Fire

[Carlos S. Olivares Pérez]

No, you can OF on mounting units. Why would that be different then dismounting.

The problem I see here is that during embarking, Vehicle and Passengers become the same target but with different MPs spent.

 

[Qwirz]

LoL! I realize know that I imagined units embarking as getting INSIDE the vehicle and so no more in sight. But we speak of units riding ON the vehicle also....there are no much cabs on the battlefield.....I correct the post above....

 

[Jeff Lewis]

I'm finally addressing gashlycrumb's big question with the pictures (sorry for the delay). Too many answers/opinions, etc. follow it, so I'm not reading them (and not discounting or minimizing the vigor of the debate and desire for answers) and just going straight to my analysis w/o looking at them, as it seems to have turned into a snowball of speculation. I hope to provide a straight answer and end the debate.

1) It can occur at either time. The mounting would be a 2nd action, costing 2 MPs, thus this action opens the MMC up to two OFs. So it's up to the NVA player.

2) Not sure I fully understand the question. The Sequence runs through for the entry of the MMC into the hex, then it begins again for the embarkation. Does that answer your question?

3) It's the same as just going through the Sequence again but you know there's no events, mines, ffe, etc. Your added step is fine, though.

4) Incorrect on the M48; it expends half its MF (thus 6 MPs) to allow the embarkation. The action of the MMC activates the M48 (which I'm assuming is Open by default here) and by the example is put under AM. The MMC is subject to 2 OF attacks, the M48 to 6 (despite the absurdity and inconceivability of this, not to mention low-percentage tactics and wastefulness of available FP). All OF occurs here. The NVA would be silly to attempt an attack on the M48 as its now technically Moving and its lowest armor is 3, so really not a wise play. Much better to fire at the MMC.

5) Why would you mount a tank only to have it fire right away and force the MMC to dismount. Tactically unsound. The answer is don't do this.

6) Though I'll admit this is not clearly stated (and even though it's a consequential and not an impulse/action move) it's the equivalent of the MPs they would have to expend in the hex, e.g., 1 in Clear, 2 in Light Woods. The OFs, btw, are attacks not units, so it can be one attack by three units, just to be clear.

 

[Carlos S. Olivares Pérez]

And what about OF against units that have just embarked on a Vehicle. Vehicle and Passengers become the same target but with different MPs spent.

 

[Jeff Lewis]

And what about OF against units that have just embarked on a Vehicle. Vehicle and Passengers become the same target but with different MPs spent.

I see this as already addressed in #4. Do you really have 6 different hexes of units that are going to fire on the M48? At some point the tactical dynamics (and sensibility) of the system resolve the extreme elasticity of the rules for which you are desiring answers. My point being, I've play . . . A LOT of games of LnLT, and I can't really think of a time when I even Op Fired twice on a hex. I really can't. Maybe a few. But it happens so infrequently due to the availability of the units and the need for them to accomplish other actions that worrying about the chance to Op Fire 6 times on a target seems academic at best and completely impractical.

 

[Carlos S. Olivares Pérez]

4) Incorrect on the M48; it expends half its MF (thus 6 MPs) to allow the embarkation. The action of the MMC activates the M48 (which I'm assuming is Open by default here) and by the example is put under AM. The MMC is subject to 2 OF attacks, the M48 to 6 (despite the absurdity and inconceivability of this, not to mention low-percentage tactics and wastefulness of available FP).

You are right, this is going to happen very few times. My problem was that since the moment the units embark I consider the Passengers + Vehicle as the same target, and so my question was more like "should I use the 6 MPs or the 2 MPs against this pack?". From your answer, I assume that the attacker has to choose between 2 OF against the MMCs or 6 OF against the Vehicle.

 

[Jeff Lewis]

Once the MMC is embarked on a PPO vehicle and the vehicle is attacked by small-arms, they are attacked too. So if you are targeting the M48 it's 6. But again, in the example there's only 4 NVA Squads, not too mention the absurdity of Op Firing 6 times on a hex.

Tactics, guys. Let's focus on sound tactics, not academic extremes.