More Mare Nostrum

[Jeff Lewis]

Ah Ah!! Thanks Jeff Lawis to put the pressure on me!

Ah, sorry, David. Not my intent. I was more interested in pointing out that this module has a lot of art and that it takes time. I think everyone knows, and can see, that your excellent art is worth waiting for.

 

[Stefano G.]

Hi Captain Darling,
i find that to have different opinions is the "spice" of the world

I can see and image your surprise and i also would have been surprised like you if i had not examined in depth (making research and reading files, books and reports, gathering veterans accounts...) Italian forces experiences in North Africa 1941 - 43 ...as i wrote, neglecting during or post war era rhetorical and false allied propaganda, i think that to better understand italian soldier behavior is very useful to collect recent books as more as possible (i like Osprey series ) and any form of historical source, as i recently did - thinking about incoming MN wargame.

ASL wargame did give a very bad and extremely punitive Morale values to italian squads ... my hope is that MN could be a good starting point for any player to better consider and to revise some common places about a force whose fighting power and capabilities have been unfairly ignored and underrated for too long.

Of course it's only my own point of view and...
"I do not agree what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire

 

[Stefano G.]

When an even number is rolled during a DFT attack, add one (1) to their inherent FP for the attack being resolved. One (1) is added for EACH firing stack containing a Bersaglieri unit with an “E” superscript, NOT for each “E”-superscripted unit taking part in the attack.

Bersaglieri is from italian "bersaglio" that means "target" ...they were trained to have a good aim

 

[Jeff Lewis]

Capt Darling wrote:

Hmmm I'm not sure I'd call a 1-5-4-5 a poor unit to start with. I understand its only going to be one in six turns on average but given Italian units actual performance I'm not sold on this, I'll have to play it and see (I can feel a house rule coming on)

A 1-5-4-*5 is a good unit when in Good Order. When things go badly for the RA units, however, they are not very good, and this is reflected, as I've previously written, in their lower Morale while Shaken and when reduced.

 

[Stefano G.]

Today we'll take a look at the Italian Bersaglieri....

and now...i am looking up waiting for some "Thunderbolt" (Folgore) falling from the sky ...( even if, for better remembering, almost all Folgore were born from and died in African desert land)

 

[Jeff Lewis]

Ask and you shall receive, Stefano:

The Folgore in Mare Nostrum have two different Squad types and both reduce to the same Half-Squad. Like other airborne troops in LnL, they have Assault Movement for their Squads but not Half-squads. Here they are:



The Folgore are elite airborne troops who were renowned for their tenacity and refusal to give up no matter the situation. To reflect this, they have this added benefit:

Shaken Folgore units can attempt to rally if an enemy unit enters its hex for Melee. Leaders attempt to rally first, and then the other units in the hex. Good Order Leaders apply their LM as described in 3.0, but a Good Order Leader IS NOT necessary for the Folgore units to attempt to rally before Melee. Units that fail to rally are eliminated; those that do rally can fight in the Melee. Note: If the only Good Order units in the hex after the rally attempts are non-melee eligible units (non-machine gun equipped Leaders for example), they are eliminated.

 

[Stefano G.]

Ask and you shall receive, Stefano:

The Folgore in Mare Nostrum have two different Squad types and both reduce to the same Half-Squad. Like other airborne troops in LnL, they have Assault Movement for their Squads but not Half-squads. Here they are:

View attachment 478 View attachment 479 View attachment 480

The Folgore are elite airborne troops who were renowned for their tenacity and refusal to give up no matter the situation. To reflect this, they have this added benefit:

Shaken Folgore units can attempt to rally if an enemy unit enters its hex for Melee. Leaders attempt to rally first, and then the other units in the hex. Good Order Leaders apply their LM as described in 3.0, but a Good Order Leader IS NOT necessary for the Folgore units to attempt to rally before Melee. Units that fail to rally are eliminated; those that do rally can fight in the Melee. Note: If the only Good Order units in the hex after the rally attempts are non-melee eligible units (non-machine gun equipped Leaders for example), they are eliminated.

Thank you a lot for this great preview

On November 7th, General Hugues, commander of the 44th Infantry Division (whose unit suffered heavy losses fighting against the Folgore) approached 3 Italian prisoners, one of them being Folgore’s commander, General Frattini. The British officer smartly saluted the 3 Italians and they returned his salute. Hugues told Frattini: "I had heard rumors that the Folgore’s commander was dead. I’m glad to find out that it is not true." "Thank you" answered Frattini.
"I also wish to tell you that, during my long life as a soldier, I’ve never met such valiant men as the Folgore’s paratroopers" Hugues added. Frattini, again: "Thank you."

"We really must bow in front of the rest of those who have been the 'LIONS' of the Folgore Division" Winston Churchill speech to the Chamber about El-Alamein battle, Nov. 21 1942

 

[Captain Darling]

More nice counters! Thanks for the update.

Stefano I respect your opinions and hopefully you'll respect mine, the Italian Royal Army's record in WW II is available for all to research. I'll say no more about it.

Regarding Hollow Legions I have not played ASL for many years now but enjoyed many good games from that module and found it well done (I now play" LnL" for all my squad level WW II games and have all the modules).

Cheers
Darlng

 

[Stefano G.]

Ask and you shall receive, Stefano:

Hi Jeff... what about to go mountain today? ...have you some "black feather" to wear?

 

[Jeff Lewis]

Here you go, Stefano. The Alpini (Mountain Troops):



From the rules: Alpini units were elite units and received special training in mountainous areas. To reflect this elite trait, Alpini units do not pay the additional MP for moving up one level or down two levels of hills, from one hex to another.

Their Squads, but not Half-squads, also have the A-superscript, so they gain an additional 1 FP when firing on adjacent units--in addition to the 2 gained on the DFT.

In Mare Nostrum, the Alpini are in a pair of East Africa scenarios. Ralph Ferrari and I have discussed some future, Line of Fire-type plans for these fine units as well.

-Jeff

 

[Stefano G.]

Thank you Jeff...as usual, David's counters images are among the nicest i've ever seen in wargame world .

Alpini "esprit de corps" let them to bear the most unfavorable environment...from the hot desert lands to the frozen russian ones.
I do like future plans for these elite units... and i image they'll have to wear thicker uniforms!

 

[Mark747]

It's the non-linear nature of the 2D6 really that puts a lower limit on Morale at "4". That's the lowest Morale in the system. A "7" Morale is extremely high, and that stretches the upper boundaries of the Damage Table. So, the basic Morale spread is "6" (Elite), "5" (Standard), "4" (Blah).

I wouldn't love a module brimming with "4" Morale units. I like scrappy, low quality troops, but they can be blah to play. I'm not sold on elite Italian troops, but these units represent small organizations, not the norm. A boon for Italian unit's morale seems odd (even if it's only a 1/6th chance). But, balanced by mostly "4" Shaken Morale is probably going to play OK. Again, making a module full of lousy units would be self-defeating.

 

[Mike Nagel]

Jeff,

As soon as this title was listed, I was onboard. It looks like you're doing stellar work with the Italians, and not making them, again, a bunch of pasta eating surrender monkeys. The poor performance of the Italian army, is more due to problems at the top, not of the courage or tenacity of the individual soldiers (or squads). It looks like you're hitting a sweet spot. Well done and looking forward to getting my dice dusty!

 

[Jeff Lewis]

I appreciate the input on the Italians, guys. We're trying to get them "right".

How about some Machine-gun Support Weapons today:



The Italians used the Bread Modello 30 and Breda Modello 37. The Breda 30 was prone to jamming in the desert, and thus the J-superscript, which has been used in past modules. The Breda 37 is a tripod MG with a Dismantled side.

-Jeff

 

[Stefano G.]

Jeff,

As soon as this title was listed, I was onboard. It looks like you're doing stellar work with the Italians, and not making them, again, a bunch of pasta eating surrender monkeys. The poor performance of the Italian army, is more due to problems at the top, not of the courage or tenacity of the individual soldiers (or squads). It looks like you're hitting a sweet spot. Well done and looking forward to getting my dice dusty!

Hi Mike...you hit the mark!
...we must also consider that - with the exception of NOSB Slavic Wehrmacht 1-4-4-4 second (third?) line squads and dutch IDD 1-5-4-4 second line - no WW2 second line LnL counter has a lower Morale value than italian RA ones: even the Russian second line itself have a better starting Morale of "5" compared to Italian Morale of "4" and to not forget that ALL (first and second line) shaken-side RA Italian counters have a dramatic Morale of 4! ...having considered this (even with the very low percentage "+ 1" to Morale) i find very difficoult to think that RA italian counters in LnL game system has been overestimated.

 

[Stefano G.]

I appreciate the input on the Italians, guys. We're trying to get them "right".

How about some Machine-gun Support Weapons today:

View attachment 524 View attachment 525

The Italians used the Bread Modello 30 and Breda Modello 37. The Breda 30 was prone to jamming in the desert, and thus the J-superscript, which has been used in past modules. The Breda 37 is a tripod MG with a Dismantled side.

-Jeff

Italian MGs were not bad but not so easy for maintenance... if i well remember, Breda 37 needed to be greased with whale oil...surely very easy to find in Mediterranean Sea!!

 

[Kevin Sharp]

Hmm. I'm not sure why we need this. Are there going to be play aids to remind us of the now 2-3 new rules for Italians, I'm sure the brits get extra stuff too. Sounds like nationality creep ala the French in HeP.

 

[Jeff Lewis]

The module is called Mare Nostrum for a reason. The Italians are a focus, as it builds from 1940 onward. They had many different types of troops in North and East Africa and our intent is to represent them properly. The few added rules that make them unique will indeed be on a PAC but are quickly internalized. The Brits get their due, too, more so on the vehicle side in this one, though. I'll start posting them soon.

 

[Captain Darling]

Hi Jeff,

I'm looking forward to seeing the British counters, given the time frame of the scenarios there'll surely be quite a range of vehicles included.

Will the British counters be coloured to match the ones from the In Defeat Defiance module?

Cheers!

 

[Jeff Lewis]

Will the British counters be coloured to match the ones from the In Defeat Defiance module?

As far as I know yes. I will confirm with David. Obviously the vehicles will have desert camo and the soldiers will be showing a lot more leg.