New to system. Unsure to label bug or not. Continuially updated.

[Chris Clarke]

I'll be posting anything I find here that is strange and then will migrate over to Bug Reports if needed.

First. Has anyone successfully been able to fire with passengers (EDIT: DF from the passengers riding the vehicle)? I assume this might be closely related to the 'can't click away' from a moving unit or it loses all its MP's.

 

[Chris Clarke]

Has anyone noticed to-hit rolls being rolled twice when not needed? It seems to only happen with Vehicles and it's not an Ordnance roll and then a Machine Gun roll...it's literally that the game will roll and then roll again for an opposed check, for example. I'll cite a detailed example when it happens again.

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

Has anyone noticed to-hit rolls being rolled twice when not needed? It seems to only happen with Vehicles and it's not an Ordnance roll and then a Machine Gun roll...it's literally that the game will roll and then roll again for an opposed check, for example. I'll cite a detailed example when it happens again.

What people have seen as two rolls were actually one attack on a hex that held moved and unmoved units. The computer will display two results, one for the unmoved units and one for teh moved units. That last one should be +1 compared to the first, because in this situation, only the moved units are impacted by the +1/-1 modifier.

It could also be that you are firing with a vehicle that can fire multiple time in one impulse. They are identified by the multiplication sign before the MG FP or the HE equivalent.

And it could be a bug

As for firing with passengers, you mean firing a vehicle ordonance that as passengers on it? I almost never do that, because they then have to dismount and make a morale check to see if tehy are not shaken. Too great a price to pay for one shot. I usually unload them out of harm's way. And I never, in my 13+ years of playing LNLT, fired passenger's small arms while they are sitting on a vehicle

 

[Chris Clarke]

What people have seen as two rolls were actually one attack on a hex that held moved and unmoved units. The computer will display two results, one for the unmoved units and one for teh moved units. That last one should be +1 compared to the first, because in this situation, only the moved units are impacted by the +1/-1 modifier.

It could also be that you are firing with a vehicle that can fire multiple time in one impulse. They are identified by the multiplication sign before the MG FP or the HE equivalent.

And it could be a bug

As for firing with passengers, you mean firing a vehicle ordonance that as passengers on it? I almost never do that, because they then have to dismount and make a morale check to see if tehy are not shaken. Too great a price to pay for one shot. I usually unload them out of harm's way. And I never, in my 13+ years of playing LNLT, fired passenger's small arms while they are sitting on a vehicle

Ah. That IS what I was seeing...off by 1...it's really hard to learn the system with a digital version that MIGHT be buggy. I can never trust what I'm seeing. But that was definitely what it was. I already had checked for multiple MG's.

No, not FIRING with passengers. Firing with PASSENGERS. lol.
I meant DF coming from passengers. And regardless of whether you've never done it, I WANT TO DO IT CUZ THATS COOL BRO.

...and it's in the rules so if ya can't do it it's a bug.

So can you try it and see? Clicking around the selection box on the bottom does nothing...the counters are very small in their representation as passengers.

 

[Chris Clarke]

Continued to muck about with Vehicles and Passengers. Can someone more well-versed test the application of the rules for this aspect of gameplay? No one has mentioned bugs in regards to this, yet I am having a very hard time making any of it work...assault movement and passengers, passengers firing, ordnance firing while passengers are outside, dismounting MP cost. All of these subjects seem to have issues.

 

[Chris Clarke]

Exhaustively testing vehicles and passengers this morning, Attack of Das, 2 Human hotseat. All tests done with Stug: Koch holding m34, and 164 holding m34 riding outside.
1. I can't find a way to tell my vehicle to only fire its machine guns and not its ordnance. Is this a bug or a missing feature?
2. When Vehicle fires Ordnance, Passengers do not disembark, etc.
3. I cannot find any way to allow passengers to fire after a Vehicle has moved. Bug or feature?
4. Top of turn, no admin markers on anything...when I select just the leader on the Stug, option buttons are Fire, move and disembark. If I select just the squad, my options are move and go downstairs.
5. Passengers can fire from vehicle at top of impulse, but Penalty for firing passengers did not apply.
6. I think I just low crawled with my vehicle. Finding hard to reproduce.
7. When above passengers disembark together, Koch has 2MV (correct: 6mv - 2 for carrying support weapon, halved to 2) and 164 has 1MV (I cannot figure out how the game comes up with this number).
8. Passengers disembarking cannot choose Assault Move. Just Move and Low Crawl.

I'm getting lost in the weeds, here. I'm just not familar enough with the rules. Trying my best.

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

You damn tank passengers lover!

1. It is a missing feature. In the boardgame, you can choose not to fire your main gun. You won,t be able to fire it later nut at elast, your passengers won't have to disembark.
2. They should. It's a bug
3. They should. I'll have to try it myself. It is on my to-do list but was taking a break from playtesting after 130 + hours of it and doing the rounds in various forums to answer questions about the game (it sparked a lot of interest). Give me a couple of days and I'll fire up LNLT Digital again and play with passngers on tanks.
4. Not sure what your question is here (and what top of turn exactly means). Both the leader and the squad should have fire or disembark options and the leader should probably a have a rally option (and a call arty if there is in the scenario) and the squad should have a lay smoke option (and certainly not going down stairs; might be an incorrect representation of the disembark option). seems like a bug
5. Again not sure what you means by top of impulse but they should have a penalty. it's a bug
6. It shouldn't be able to. It's a bug
7. They should have 2. It's a bug
8. 1-6-4 Germans units in Heroes of Normanday don't have a red square under their Movement allowance; thus they don't have the Assault moving capacity

I encourage you to press F3 when you see something wrong. It will send an email to the dev, along with an autosave of your game.He will then be able to address those bugs.

 

[Chris Clarke]

Thanks, Stephane. I'm including all of my findings as I go, regardless of whether I think they are bugs or not. Detail:
1. Understood. Will not include as bug.
2. Will move to bug forum.
3. Will move to bug forum.
4. Top of turn, meaning at the beginning of the action phase, the first impulse. My implied question was, "Is this a bug?" Will move to bug forum.
5. Top of Impulse, meaning beginning of Impulse, not during the Vehicle Impulse. It's Germany Impulse, I activate Leader and Squad Passengers, choose to fire, no penalty. Will move to bug forum.
6. If I can reproduce, will send f3 bug report.
7. What's strange is that if I move them together, they have 2MV, which makes sense (double time is irrelevant). But if I attempt to move the squad by itself, it definitely only has 1MV. Will move to bug forum.
8. This is the reason why I don't immediately submit. Completely overlooked that.

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

1. You could move this to the bug forum, because it is not allowing you to do something the board game allows you
5. Passengers are considered an integral part of the vehicle, wheter they are inside or outside. When you activate a hex with only a vehicle and some passengers, you are activating both vehicle and passengers. They are also considered as one target so if you fire at a hex containing a vehicle with passengers, you have only one possible target, a vehicular one (does not means the passengers won't suffer from the attack but you use the drm applying for vehicle, not passengers).
8. Not a problem and I'm sure Tom does appreciate considerate people that doublecheck before reporting a bug. You can continue to double check here; I,m sure they are people learning from your questions and my answers

 

[Chris Clarke]

1. Makes sense. Will do.
5. So let me get this straight. If a Vehicle has passengers, the rules allow me to activate that hex, and then (assuming there are enough MV for all units involved and it's a PPOx2) have the vehicle Assault move 1 hex, squad x fires at hex y, vehicle moves another hex, squad z fires at hex w, vehicle moves another hex, an SMC dismounts and runs into a building, vehicle moves 1 more space and fires?

 

[Chris Clarke]

Stephane, I'd love to chat via Discord as we ran through some of this stuff together. Not even multiplayer. Both of us pull up the same map, take the same actions and see if we're seeing the same issues.

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

5. So let me get this straight. If a Vehicle has passengers, the rules allow me to activate that hex, and then (assuming there are enough MV for all units involved and it's a PPOx2) have the vehicle Assault move 1 hex, squad x fires at hex y, vehicle moves another hex, squad z fires at hex w, vehicle moves another hex, an SMC dismounts and runs into a building, vehicle moves 1 more space and fires?

You got everything right up to the very end, jsut after the SMC dismounted and runned into a building. When vehicles Assault Move (15.2), their partial movement is consumed by such loading/unloading procedures, so if they want to unload at any point of their movement (beside the starting hex), they can't use Asssault move and thus can't fire in that turn. Also, leg units cannot mount a vehicle that has used Assault Fire (15.2.1) and Fired its ordnance (14.1). So here the possible sequence for the vehicle:

1) Load/unload, moving tank up to half of its MP
2) Load/unload, firing tank (this is done by assault movement, even though the vehicle does not technically move) or hold fire for a later impulse

Note that you cannot load "on the move" because that would mean activating another hex beside your vehicle but you can unload "on the move" because this is still the same activation

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

Stephane, I'd love to chat via Discord as we ran through some of this stuff together. Not even multiplayer. Both of us pull up the same map, take the same actions and see if we're seeing the same issues.

Duly noted. As I said, I won't be opening LNLT Digital before tomorrow evening, maybe later, and certainly not during working hours. Where are you located, so that we can figure out our time differential? My Discord username is Stéphane Tanguay#6719

 

[Chris Clarke]

EST.

You got everything right up to the very end, jsut after the SMC dismounted and runned into a building. When vehicles Assault Move (15.2), their partial movement is consumed by such loading/unloading procedures, so if they want to unload at any point of their movement (beside the starting hex), they can't use Asssault move and thus can't fire in that turn. Also, leg units cannot mount a vehicle that has used Assault Fire (15.2.1) and Fired its ordnance (14.1). So here the possible sequence for the vehicle:

1) Load/unload, moving tank up to half of its MP
2) Load/unload, firing tank (this is done by assault movement, even though the vehicle does not technically move) or hold fire for a later impulse

Note that you cannot load "on the move" because that would mean activating another hex beside your vehicle but you can unload "on the move" because this is still the same activation

Right. Because you can think of Loading/Unloading and Firing as costing MV/2.
So the vehicle can Move half it's MV and Fire (in either order: assault move or assault fire),
Load in its starting hex and move half its MV,
Move half its MV and unload any number of passengers at any point along that movement (is that right?),
or Load/unload and fire (this impulse or later).
Is that correct?

Also, in my sequence above, if the vehicle had just performed a regular Move, it would be correct?

Taking all these rules together, I don't understand how a Leg unit can begin it's turn outside the hex in which it will load. You would have to activate the hex with the leg unit, have it move into the hex with the vehicle and then load. But Loading the vehicle activates the vehicle, and now you seem to have activated two hexes. Unless this is just an exception to the general 'one hex' activation per impulse.

It takes one-half (rounded up) of both the vehicle and Squad’s Movement Factors to load into (i.e., mount) or dismount from a vehicle.
The following conditions apply:
• Leg units do not need to begin the Operations Phase (4.0) in the same hex as the vehicle into which they are loading.
• Loading/mounting the vehicle activates the vehicle for that impulse

 

[Chris Clarke]

Duly noted. As I said, I won't be opening LNLT Digital before tomorrow evening, maybe later, and certainly not during working hours. Where are you located, so that we can figure out our time differential? My Discord username is Stéphane Tanguay#6719

EST. I'm unemployed so whenever you're not busy. I'll send you a friend request.

 

[Stéphane Tanguay]

Is that correct?

Yes

Also, in my sequence above, if the vehicle had just performed a regular Move, it would be correct?

Well, yes, if you remove the tank firing part at the end

Unless this is just an exception to the general 'one hex' activation per impulse.

Yes, and the excerpts you posted at the very end of your message demonstrate it

 

[Chris Clarke]

It's exception wording that I would have clarified further. It demands an example as it's in direct violation of the play sequence.