Request for "Living Rules" for LNL Series

[Frank Kiss]

G'day

I am the proud owner of several "older" LNL titles, including the first editions of Forgotten Heroes and ANZAC Attack as well as BOH (v.2 rules), S&B, NOSB as well as more recently HotB(litzkrieg) and IDD. So my latest rules set for LNL is v3.0 which came in HotB.

I am aware from revisiting the LNL pages on BGG that v3.1 (in the re-release/revision of FH is v3.1 and from some posts here that the changes to v3.0 are relatively minor, but am unclear what these are. I am also aware that as the rules have developed from the days of Shrapnel and Matrix to LNL that "special" module rules, like national characteristics, were a part of the rules and are now provided (more or less) separately to maintain the "core" series rules.

I am wondering whether a set of living rules can be maintained and updated here by LNL staff? As many of us know, other game publishers such as GMT and COA, provide such a service making rules and/or charts available as PDF downloads to keep the games current. Certainly making the "core" LNL rules available and keeping errata and clarifications on the website would be useful.

I would be keen to know others thoughts on this.

Frank

PS If this service is already provided I have been unable to locate on the current/updated LNL website.

 

[David Heath]

Hello Frank

You can find all of our currently available downloads in our Resource section on the forum listed above. As for the LnL Rules we only have the Heroes of the Pacific Rules available and you can find them here. We are working on making some new updated ones for the older games.

David

 

[Frank Kiss]

David, thank you for your prompt response.

I had seen and downloaded the HotP rules after seeing them mentioned on BGG however I had inferred, perhaps incorrectly, that these were specific to that release and by its numbering (v1.0) that it was still a "work in progress" for that forthcoming title. I did however note in the rules "header" that the HotP rules could be used with previous titles.

What I had in mind, which could presumably work well for LNL rules, though I didn't specifically reference it in my original post is the approach taken by MMP (formerly The Gamers) for keep rules up to date for its series games notably the Standard, Operational and Tactical Combat systems (link here: http://www.gamersarchive.net/theGamers/archive/). I recall reading Mark Walker's earlier rules headers about the dilemma of leaving module specific rules in the rules provided in the game or having a "core" set of rules and a separate module rules set ... the latter approach was adopted for The Gamers titles and works well.

As you noted LNL is working on updating the rules for earlier games, perhaps it is timely to consider which approach to take. Given the nature of modern "cut and paste" e-publishing it is possible to take either approach, self-contained or core plus module specific rules, and make them available as PDF downloads.

Finally, it would be helpful to maintain on this site easily accessible consolidated errata and clarifications for the various LNL titles because at present it can be a "bit of a chore" trawling through BGG (including in its arcane forum threads), CSW and grognards.com, by series and/or individual module, to find errata and clarifications (or official rulings).

David, I guess it is an ongoing balancing act within any game publishing company to determine how to allocate slender resources between the competing aims of developing/producing new and much anticipated titles and/or servicing previous titles.

Good luck, thanks and have a great Australia Day!

Frank

 

[David Heath]

Hi Frank

We are pretty much going to be making what we are calling the Base or Core rule sets. Then with the module or game set of rules. The core rules will be just that, the core rules that should play the same from game to game in the series. The game rules are rules to play that game in its theater or era. We are not going to be publishing say all Lock 'n Load Rules (World War 2 to Vietnam) into on book unless we make a binder style rulebook designed for just that. So for Lock 'n Load we are going to make core rules by conflict period. World War 2, Korea, Vietnam, Cold War etc. The World War 2 rules will not have any rules from Vietnam or Cold War era. We will then include rules for that game. Using the same example a Pacific game may have tunnels and a West Front game may not. So you will not have the tunnel rules in the West Front game manual. You can of course you can use rules from any game the players agree with. We will also be placing any rule changes in different color/style format to make it easier for experienced players to find and learn the rule changes without needed to read the whole game manual again and hunt for them.

The Heroes of the Pacific rules are newer and more up to date then the LnL v3.1 rules. There is a very good chance that these will be relabeled v4.0 or something else. We were moving from a LnL ruleset (v3.1) to a Core game rules. So Heroes of the Pacific would be v1.0 or Winter 2015 and then we would update that core rulebook going forward. If we try to do that then you need all the rules from all the games and we are trying to avoid that.

We will make all the rules available as living rules that will be downloadable from right here in our "Resource Section". We want this to be an easy one stop place to find what you are looking for. If you have any questions for ideas please let me know. We have updated the Heroes of the Pacific rules based on user feedback and will keep doing so.

Have a GREAT holiday.

David

 

[Frank Kiss]

G'day David

Seems like the planning for rules going forward is well in hand!

Certainly the era / theatre division of rules is very sensible ... alas, no more Hueys over Normandy in '44. Having the multipurpose "core" v2 helo rules, for example, in original BoH worked as Ring Of Hills was essentially treated as an expansion of BoH back then.

WW2 core rules would probably cover Korea as well; with Cold War rules covering Vietnam/NATOvsWP/Falklands (ie 1960s-80s). I guess, for example, there is scope for adapting the HotP cave/tunnel (and other evolving Pacific/jungle theatre) rules for future 'Nam scenarios as well.

When you mentioned "binder style" rulebooks I immediately got the ASL-shakes ... I got into the LNL series to escape the extreme minutia of ASL's notion of a tactical wargaming ... too many rules and exceptions (and less time having fun) for me. I'm sure that's not where LNL will ever end up ... simplicity, like chess (and LNL): relatively easy to learn but difficult to master; whereas ASL, in my view, being rules heavy was difficult to learn from the get go.

Using different colours or fonts to add new/revised rules has worked well in GMT's living rules and makes it easier to see how the rules evolve.

David, I'm sure I won't be alone in being pleased to learn of the approach LNL will be taking going forward in keeping this series, and presumably the others, current. Thanks again.

Frank

 

[David Heath]

Hi Frank

We are not looking to go ASL on anyone. Jeff Lewis is doing a great job and has my complete faith in what he is doing. What I was talking about is a General Edition of the rules that would have all the rules from all the games in one easy to fine (if not heavy) binder. This way it can be updated and added to. This is not even in the planning stages and was just something we considered and asked the community about. We will never release a game expansion from one era but make it require another era core game. In fact we really plan on only making complete games for the most part.

David

 

[Frank Kiss]

Hi David, et al

I should have stuck my head up from the foxhole a while ago (given my initial post above) to thank you and the team for putting together the living rules.

Things are panning out rather well with the modern core rules (1960+, v4.1) set already available online, and, as I understand from perusing the forums, the WWII living core rules (based, I expect, on the latest HotP rules set) currently being finalised.

Great work!

Frank

 

[Jeff Lewis]

We should have updated (considerably updated!) v4.1 rules posted shortly for both 1930-59 and 1960-present.

 

[Barthheart]

We should have updated (considerably updated!) v4.1 rules posted shortly for both 1930-59 and 1960-present.

Great stuff Jeff!