Doug Alber
Member
David,
As someone who was on the fence for the WaW series, a bundle for all five would be a winner!
Thanks!
Doug
What's Coming in the World At War 85 Series
- Thread starter David Heath
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David,
As someone who was on the fence for the WaW series, a bundle for all five would be a winner!
Thanks!
Doug
Ryan Shannahan
Member
Great news to hear all will be offered at once and for what appears to be a great price!
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Hi Guys,
Some of you asked for larger unit images. So we were able to make them about 20% larger. I know it is hard to tell with these uploaded images but let us know what you think.
![US-M2Bradley-[GREEN]-biggerunit-smallerfont-test.jpeg](https://forums.lnlpublishing.com/data/attachments/4/4616-b78edc516e5d682d1d2183a2423619dc.jpg "US-M2Bradley-[GREEN]-biggerunit-smallerfont-test.jpeg")
Some of you asked for larger unit images. So we were able to make them about 20% larger. I know it is hard to tell with these uploaded images but let us know what you think.
Designer Notes: Revising the ATGM ranges and their Ammo rules
This is long. But juicy, I think.
An update on ATGM rules is in the works. Units with a green AP value are ATGM-missile armed. I have been given to understand on other forums that there were complaints about how ATGMs were characterized and used. I agree. So I have taken this to heart and have worked out some simple changes that I feel will add much of the flavor of ATGMs back into the game, without adding undue complexity. In fact. to my mind they are not complex at all. I much prefer a collection of simple systems that combine to portray a complex system, without being complex themselves,
Here is what is under consideration. I have been playtesting these concepts as a group, so far so good:
1. ATGMs will now have a minimum range of 3 hexes.
2. Maximum ranges are being revised upward in 99% of ATGM-armed units, and a new Effective Range rule will be implemented. Ranges have increased based on a re-evaluation of available data on ATGM ranges in 1985, as well as input from you folks with real ATGM experience. The ranges I am testing have seriously increased, and many ATGMs can cover the length of one map easily. OTOH past a certain range the target becomes SMALL visually, even with magnification (barring Hellfire camera and laser designation). And to my knowledge these were still all GUIDED weapons, i.e. for most of them, someone had to steer them the entire way to target. So to incorporate that concept, I am testing a maximum range penalty of a reduction in Missile To-Hit by one when: a) the target is at greater than half the Green AP Value’s Range Value; and/or b) if the target is at any valid range and in terrain that offers a Terrain Bonus. The latter covers situations where the target is in Woods, for example, which is detrimental to the final effectiveness of ATGMs. Wires get tangled/broken, etc., and that can happen at any range.
3. Ammunition Checks and Reload Checks: to my mind, triggering a state of a unit being temporarily out of ammo by getting no hits, or (as we attempted to revise it in development) by getting all hits just does not make sense. Its about training and that is represented in this system by existing Morale Values. These rules revisions leverage that value instead for Ammo checks and Reload checks. Also, there are times when units are permanently out of ATGM missiles.
There appear to be three categories of ammunition supply and potential battlefield reloading, categorized by type. From my research, dedicated ATGM Support Weapons teams have the most reloads (they've got a frackin' TRUCKLOAD), and also the most personnel available to ready new weapons or reload (even having 3 or 4 guys versus a vehicle crew is advantage in this case, again, to my mind). Dedicated ATGM vehicles appear to have the next most reloads (they too have cargo capacity, but my understanding is they have to back off somewhat to reload safely), and have the next easiest time reloading. Helicopters are included in this category. The last category is APCs and IFVs (like the BMPs, M2 Bradley and Marder), having the least reloads, and the least (or at least not easy) ability to reload on the battlefield. (There are exceptions like, like the U.S. M3 Cavalry Fighting Vehicle, which ha a plentiful ATGM supply per vehicle because it only carries a scout team, not a squad). All of these categories depend on crew training to be efficient in use of their ammo supply and thus keep shooting or, if they do run out of ammo, reloading. Consequently any ATGM-armed unit makes a Morale Check after EACH time it fires. To my mind this is not anything different from many other games and simply fits here in WaW85. Failure of the check makes the unit temporarily out of ammo, depending on its category. The unit may make a Morale Check during a new Reload step of the Marker Removal phase (meaning once a turn, at the end of the turn) to remove an out of ammo marker. Failure of the Reload Morale Check roll has different consequences, depending on the category of unit that failed:
a. Dedicated ATGM Support Weapon Teams - Failed Reload MC means the unit remains temporarily out of ammo. The unit may roll to reload as usual during the next Marker Removal Phase.
b. Dedicated ATGM vehicles and Helicopters - Failed Reload MC means it gains a Low Ammo marker. Upon its next shot, a unit with a Low Ammo marker will be automatically and permanently out of ammo. Replace the Low Ammo marker with an Out of Ammo marker after the shot.
c. APCs and IFVs - Failed Reload MC means the unit is permanently Out of Ammo, and may no longer roll to reload during subsequent Marker Removal Phases.
Testing continues!
This is long. But juicy, I think.
An update on ATGM rules is in the works. Units with a green AP value are ATGM-missile armed. I have been given to understand on other forums that there were complaints about how ATGMs were characterized and used. I agree. So I have taken this to heart and have worked out some simple changes that I feel will add much of the flavor of ATGMs back into the game, without adding undue complexity. In fact. to my mind they are not complex at all. I much prefer a collection of simple systems that combine to portray a complex system, without being complex themselves,
Here is what is under consideration. I have been playtesting these concepts as a group, so far so good:
1. ATGMs will now have a minimum range of 3 hexes.
2. Maximum ranges are being revised upward in 99% of ATGM-armed units, and a new Effective Range rule will be implemented. Ranges have increased based on a re-evaluation of available data on ATGM ranges in 1985, as well as input from you folks with real ATGM experience. The ranges I am testing have seriously increased, and many ATGMs can cover the length of one map easily. OTOH past a certain range the target becomes SMALL visually, even with magnification (barring Hellfire camera and laser designation). And to my knowledge these were still all GUIDED weapons, i.e. for most of them, someone had to steer them the entire way to target. So to incorporate that concept, I am testing a maximum range penalty of a reduction in Missile To-Hit by one when: a) the target is at greater than half the Green AP Value’s Range Value; and/or b) if the target is at any valid range and in terrain that offers a Terrain Bonus. The latter covers situations where the target is in Woods, for example, which is detrimental to the final effectiveness of ATGMs. Wires get tangled/broken, etc., and that can happen at any range.
3. Ammunition Checks and Reload Checks: to my mind, triggering a state of a unit being temporarily out of ammo by getting no hits, or (as we attempted to revise it in development) by getting all hits just does not make sense. Its about training and that is represented in this system by existing Morale Values. These rules revisions leverage that value instead for Ammo checks and Reload checks. Also, there are times when units are permanently out of ATGM missiles.
There appear to be three categories of ammunition supply and potential battlefield reloading, categorized by type. From my research, dedicated ATGM Support Weapons teams have the most reloads (they've got a frackin' TRUCKLOAD), and also the most personnel available to ready new weapons or reload (even having 3 or 4 guys versus a vehicle crew is advantage in this case, again, to my mind). Dedicated ATGM vehicles appear to have the next most reloads (they too have cargo capacity, but my understanding is they have to back off somewhat to reload safely), and have the next easiest time reloading. Helicopters are included in this category. The last category is APCs and IFVs (like the BMPs, M2 Bradley and Marder), having the least reloads, and the least (or at least not easy) ability to reload on the battlefield. (There are exceptions like, like the U.S. M3 Cavalry Fighting Vehicle, which ha a plentiful ATGM supply per vehicle because it only carries a scout team, not a squad). All of these categories depend on crew training to be efficient in use of their ammo supply and thus keep shooting or, if they do run out of ammo, reloading. Consequently any ATGM-armed unit makes a Morale Check after EACH time it fires. To my mind this is not anything different from many other games and simply fits here in WaW85. Failure of the check makes the unit temporarily out of ammo, depending on its category. The unit may make a Morale Check during a new Reload step of the Marker Removal phase (meaning once a turn, at the end of the turn) to remove an out of ammo marker. Failure of the Reload Morale Check roll has different consequences, depending on the category of unit that failed:
a. Dedicated ATGM Support Weapon Teams - Failed Reload MC means the unit remains temporarily out of ammo. The unit may roll to reload as usual during the next Marker Removal Phase.
b. Dedicated ATGM vehicles and Helicopters - Failed Reload MC means it gains a Low Ammo marker. Upon its next shot, a unit with a Low Ammo marker will be automatically and permanently out of ammo. Replace the Low Ammo marker with an Out of Ammo marker after the shot.
c. APCs and IFVs - Failed Reload MC means the unit is permanently Out of Ammo, and may no longer roll to reload during subsequent Marker Removal Phases.
Testing continues!
I apologize for the delay in response, the series has evolved since your post but we have a much firmer grasp of what is coming. Everything in Eisenbach Gap Deluxe will be included in Storming the Gap, as well as additional counters and scenarios for a small number of added East German and US VII Corps formations.
Storyline-ways, Storming the Gap is the entry level, then Blood and Fury, The Untold Battles, America Breached and finally Strike Force Africa (there are three more games planned but that is covered in a different post).
David is working on offering the first five at a great price as a package.
Scott Chisholm
Member
Will America Breached be significantly different from America Conquered/TWI? Put differently, will AC/TWI be compatible with the revised games?
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Hi Scott,
None of the old World At War will be compatible with World At War 85. The counters are different (factors and layout) and they are larger. Same with the maps as well.
David
None of the old World At War will be compatible with World At War 85. The counters are different (factors and layout) and they are larger. Same with the maps as well.
David
Scott Chisholm
Member
David,
Thanks. I seem to remember you saying that before. Better start saving up my pennies.... ;-)
Thanks. I seem to remember you saying that before. Better start saving up my pennies.... ;-)
This week on The World At War 85: New Features
We have added the East Germans to the mix in Storming the Gap, engaging in some battles near Schweinfurt and with the US 8th Infantry Division. We will be adding 2 to 4 scenarios to use the new battalions. We are looking into an East versus West German scenario or two.
We have added the East Germans to the mix in Storming the Gap, engaging in some battles near Schweinfurt and with the US 8th Infantry Division. We will be adding 2 to 4 scenarios to use the new battalions. We are looking into an East versus West German scenario or two.
Ty Snouffer
Member
The loving care shown with the LnLT approach has caused me to take a second look at this system which I previously abandoned. Best of luck guys.
Hey all, I will be to giving you quick updates periodically on elements that are being covered in our re-imagining of this series, starting today, and periodically after that. The first couple of things:
1) NEW MAP ARTWORK - ENLARGED HEXES
The new map artwork is (to my mind) much more visually appealing and functional at the same time. Each map will be double-sided with a Summer and a Winter side. The hexes have been enlarged - and consequently the overall size of the maps - to fit the new larger counters.
Rivers have been moved from flowing down the middle of hexes to the hexsides. This yields more playable hexes, literally more maneuvering room. Names have been removed from the towns on the maps, as they will be representing multiple locations over the course of the narrative of the campaign of each game.
2) GEOMORPHIC MAPS
For a game this scale (platoon/battery) and even though the storyline objectives in the scenarios will be real-world locations, I think it is essential for us gamers to be able to make our own scenarios on the fly and as we wish, so geomorphic maps was definitely something I wanted and we are implementing. In fact, all the sketches for all the maps are made and are in the expert hands of our amazing map artist. The draft-proofing process is well underway and I approved the drafts of the maps for Storming the Gap just a day or two ago.
In the interest of full disclosure: two maps in the series have an edge each that has only full water hexes (for invasions), so the water edge will only geomorphically connect to the water edge on that one other map. But the end result is a bay with an island in it! The two or three "land" sides of these two maps do connect geomorphically to any other map, so any "invasion" or coast scenario can be expanded easily. I am hoping you find the option of a long beach to invade or defend as appealing. Sorry, no sample for that specific map-matching available as yet.
1) NEW MAP ARTWORK - ENLARGED HEXES
The new map artwork is (to my mind) much more visually appealing and functional at the same time. Each map will be double-sided with a Summer and a Winter side. The hexes have been enlarged - and consequently the overall size of the maps - to fit the new larger counters.
Rivers have been moved from flowing down the middle of hexes to the hexsides. This yields more playable hexes, literally more maneuvering room. Names have been removed from the towns on the maps, as they will be representing multiple locations over the course of the narrative of the campaign of each game.
2) GEOMORPHIC MAPS
For a game this scale (platoon/battery) and even though the storyline objectives in the scenarios will be real-world locations, I think it is essential for us gamers to be able to make our own scenarios on the fly and as we wish, so geomorphic maps was definitely something I wanted and we are implementing. In fact, all the sketches for all the maps are made and are in the expert hands of our amazing map artist. The draft-proofing process is well underway and I approved the drafts of the maps for Storming the Gap just a day or two ago.
In the interest of full disclosure: two maps in the series have an edge each that has only full water hexes (for invasions), so the water edge will only geomorphically connect to the water edge on that one other map. But the end result is a bay with an island in it! The two or three "land" sides of these two maps do connect geomorphically to any other map, so any "invasion" or coast scenario can be expanded easily. I am hoping you find the option of a long beach to invade or defend as appealing. Sorry, no sample for that specific map-matching available as yet.
Joshua Oconnor
Member
So maps are no longer historical, that's disappointing, but I'm committed to buying the game and it sounds like they will be cool.
I also will miss the retro fonts on the counters.
Hi Josh, I hope we did not mislead you that historical meant topographic maps of the actual terrain or something similar. To clarify: The maps will be representing real world locations that you will find in the scenario descriptions. I am doing my best to select real locations for these battles that have a geographic configuration of (typically) cities or towns, and rivers that is as close to what is on the game map as possible. So in that respect they will be historical. For example, in one of the new scenarios, when you will fight to cross the river or defend same at Bad Oeynhausen in the old West Germany, you will hopefully find the configuration of towns and the essential river crossings on the map to be somewhat similar to the real world location, enough so that you hopefully feel the scenario fsirly represents fighting there. Thanks for hanging in there!
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At least as many, with some increased:
The nonplayable border and tracks on the original Eisenbach gap map have been removed, and the map split into two now-standard sized maps for Storming the Gap. Hexrows were added at the bottom but rows were removed on the right to bring the maps into geomorphic compliance. I think it end up being a few more hexes.
The old Death of the First Panzer map needed the entire hexgrid rotated in order to be like all the other maps. I think its a little smaller now; IIRC the map was overwide.I am unsure about that though.
But its basically all good news: every map has more hexes for manuever as the rivers are moving to hex sides. When rivers ran through the center of hexes, those hexes were unplayable except for amphibious units.
Let me know if you have any other questions!
- Keith
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Anybody want to have their name on a WaW85 series Leader Counter?
We are only using last names on the counter (no face art) but if you are interested, email me your full name in case something else comes up (like we write some scenario description text with your Leader's name in it). Everyone will be a Colonel or Lt. Colonel or the equivalent (Generally NATO company/battalion commanders and Warsaw Pact battalion/regimental commanders). And yes you may school me on real world ranks/rank names from any country, I am willing and ready to learn.
Let me know your three choices for nationality, in order, and if you are amenable to having your name "adjusted" to sound and/or spell similarly to the nationality you choose (it is not required). I will be unable to tell you which module in which your Leader Counter will appear until all the counters are complete, but it would be a real waste for me to have to come up with fictitious names for any command slots when "YOU are In COMMAND" (as the old Avalon Hill box text goes...).
If you are not sure if we are using your preferred nationality in the series, just email me, and I am happy to confirm or deny same.
- Keith Tracton, Developer, World At War 85 series
keitht at lnlpublishing dot com
We are only using last names on the counter (no face art) but if you are interested, email me your full name in case something else comes up (like we write some scenario description text with your Leader's name in it). Everyone will be a Colonel or Lt. Colonel or the equivalent (Generally NATO company/battalion commanders and Warsaw Pact battalion/regimental commanders). And yes you may school me on real world ranks/rank names from any country, I am willing and ready to learn.
Let me know your three choices for nationality, in order, and if you are amenable to having your name "adjusted" to sound and/or spell similarly to the nationality you choose (it is not required). I will be unable to tell you which module in which your Leader Counter will appear until all the counters are complete, but it would be a real waste for me to have to come up with fictitious names for any command slots when "YOU are In COMMAND" (as the old Avalon Hill box text goes...).
If you are not sure if we are using your preferred nationality in the series, just email me, and I am happy to confirm or deny same.
- Keith Tracton, Developer, World At War 85 series
keitht at lnlpublishing dot com
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