Movement modes and options missing from vehicles

Discussion in 'Lock 'n Load Tactical Digital' started by Wiggum, May 29, 2020.

  1. Wiggum

    Wiggum Member

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    Is this thread i want to gather all movement modes and other options (abilities) currently missing for vehicles in the digital game compared to the boardgame.
    Since there are quite a few things missing i made this thread showing them. If someone notices further vehicle abilities missing currently please add them here.

    I know Tom is working hard and i know they will most likely be included soon but i just wanted to help out and have them all in one list. All these tactical options are important to have, especially in the new Days of Villainy DLC that will release soon and which includes many vehicles and open terrain.

    (my old thread here can be deleted since i included these into this new one: https://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/missing-stuff-for-vehicles-that-unload-troops.6133/ )

    There seems to be currently no way of doing a Continuous Vehicle Movement as per rule 15.5.

    In the rules it is said that squads can dismount using Assault Move, this is currently impossible in the digital game.

    Also, according to the rules we should be able to move both the vehicle and the dismounted units after dismounting but this is not possible in the digital game, we can only move either the vehicle or the squad during that impuls.


    Moving Infantry and Vehicles together is also not possible in the digital game currently but it is in the boardgame rules and is called "Coordinated Movement":


     
    #1 Wiggum, May 29, 2020
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  2. Tom Proudfoot

    Tom Proudfoot Digital Designer

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    Things having to do with passengers hopping on and off are bugs, I am looking at passengers a lot today and will hopefully fix them (but there are a lot of combinations of activations/orders of doing things).

    Coordinated Movement is on the to-do list, it wasn't possible before the changes that let you deselect and reselect units without deactivating them. It will be complicated, however, because there was an assumption that a vehicle was always in its own 'stack' before when infantry is in the same hex, so when you move them both at the same time, I have to do some cleverness. (This seems like a lot of effort on my part for the +2 TM modifier for the vehicle, because I can't see what other reason there is for doing Coordinated Movement, but I digress...)

    The real tricky one is Continuous Movement. I've stared at these rules a few times, and what I haven't figured out is, what to do if you don't actually do it. Let's say there's a button you push after you're done moving that says 'Continuous!', and then you get shot at, and you get the bonuses, and then on the next turn you never actually move the vehicle. In a live boardgame, your opponent can glare at you and say 'you have to move that vehicle this turn!' Enforcing that mechanically is another thing. (There is a similar problem with the 'you must exit these helicopters' in Assault on Ben Suc, I originally had it enforced so that the 'end turn' button wouldn't show up until you exited them, but people kept finding ways to make it impossible by blocking in helicopters with other helicopters or finding strange combinations of firing/hovering that would keep them from moving, so I disabled that enforcement for now).
     
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  3. Wiggum

    Wiggum Member

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    Isnt there a special marker for Continuous Movement? If not maybe we can create one by just using a different colored "Moved" marker. This marker stays (just like acquiring markers) and the player can only move this vehicle the next turn or do an Assault Move. If no hex next to him is eligible to be moved into because now there are enemy vehicles or something...the Continuous Movement effect is removed, he does no longer have the bonus but can do a normal activation.
     
  4. Stéphane Tanguay

    Stéphane Tanguay Moderator
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    Don't know if this can help but, personnaly, in the board game, I would not mind that much if my opponent, in the end, did not move his vehicle as long as:

    1) All his attacks are treated with appropriate penalties (for example, Assault Move/Fire with a +2 penalty on the OFT)
    2) He cannot Opp fire (because that would prevent him from moving, as he would be considered activated already)

    Tactically, you usually choose continuous movement because you are in the target sight of some AT weapon or another vehicle and want to make sure you will benefit from the -1 modifier if you don't move before your attacker get to fire at you or you get rid of this nuisance. Because of that, I have never met an opponennt that did not move his vehicle under a continuous movement order (but maybe they are just law-abiding citizens :))
     
  5. ejwolski

    ejwolski Member

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    Load/unload for sure needs to be fixed - it's the basic function for passenger capable vehicles. Right now my APC with.a co-located squad can load the squad but then is stuck in the hex with no remaining movement points. Thanks for working on this - the game is amazing overall!
     
  6. Wiggum

    Wiggum Member

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    True, even with the latest patch i have a bunch of problems with loading and unloading.

    - Cant change the movement mode of a unit that i want to dismount that is passenger of a vehicle but only in another impulse, not in the impulse in which the vehicle moves...isnt that against the rules?
    Can you help? Is this against the rules?

    - Trying to unload a Squad to Assault move seems broken, i have to click numerouse times on the "unload" button, then once it works the vehicle is also marked as "Assault move".
     
  7. Stéphane Tanguay

    Stéphane Tanguay Moderator
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    Already answered in the thread that duplicate your question Wiggum :) It is not against the rules and Tom is working to correct this problem, which is that the passagenrs and the vehicle share the same Moved/Assault move marker for now
     
  8. Wiggum

    Wiggum Member

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    Today i was able to make a Tank Low Crawl. Also, Infantry on top of tanks still gets the option to move "downstairs"...i wonder if the game considers them to be on 1st Level (level 0 is ground level)...impossible to tell.

    I hope this is next on the list, making loading & unloading MMC and SMC from vehicles working as intended. Currently its impossible since they share the same Movement marker. Everything else (Coordinated movement for example) was included now.
     
  9. Wiggum

    Wiggum Member

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    The new update says:

    - added ability to mix move modes when loading/unloading passengers; passengers use the selected move mode and if the vehicle has not already moved, a menu will pop up to select a separate Move or Assault Move for it

    But for me it is not working at all currently (yes i did install the update via Steam).
    I can't change the movement mode of the Squad that is passenger of the vehicle and then unload it and move with the squad and the vehicle like i should be able according to the rules. Something is is buggy. I had all kinds of troubles with huge delays before the unloading happened, with being unable to select a different movement mode for the squad and vehicle or i simply was stuck after unloading (although both had all MP left) and could not do anything. Sometimes with both, sometimes only with the vehicle. And cklicking was really awkward i had the feeling i had to select multiple times and sometimes the unload button seems to have no effect. I send multiple reports with F3 i hope they dont get deleted as spam since i send them within minutes...

    Also, Text is clipping and hidden by symbols also "ghost" boxes appear when hoovering over the selection for movement mode for the vehicle while unloading (i play in FHD resolution):

    Inked20200610152035_1_LI.jpg

    Inked20200610152725_1_LI.jpg
     
  10. Tom Proudfoot

    Tom Proudfoot Digital Designer

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    Yep, I got 'em. When I finished it up yesterday, I tried all these various combinations of loading and unloading to make sure I got them all, and forgot to try to do it twice in one game, and it turns out doing it twice in one game crashes it, whoops. (And a crash for me in the editor is not a crash for you in the compiled game, but things will get really weird after that point). Give it another whirl after today's version.
     
  11. Tom Proudfoot

    Tom Proudfoot Digital Designer

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    Ok, patch is up, so I am now accepting new problems with the Move/Assault Move popup. :p
     
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  12. Wiggum

    Wiggum Member

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    Hi, despite the new patch there still seem many bugs in the whole mounting/dismounting and changing movement modes thing. I send you multiple bug reports with F3. Thanks for working on it Tom.
     
    #12 Wiggum, Jun 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
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  13. Tom Proudfoot

    Tom Proudfoot Digital Designer

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    Yep, I got 'em. I didn't get to look at them today but I have them for tomorrow.
     
  14. Wiggum

    Wiggum Member

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    Tom i already have the newest update installed but it was still very easy to provoke bugs when i change the movement mode of the squad that is passenger of the vehicle to assault move and then unload them while choosing normal movement mode for the vehicle. Especially the markers seem problematic.

    I send you lots of bug reports again :)

    Also a rule question how is it really supposed to Work??

    Lets say i have a leader and a squad loaded on a tank all have full Movement Factor (MF) beginning of turn.
    I change the movement mode of the squad to assault move and unload them and choose also Assault move for the tank.

    So the tank looses halve his MF...10-5=5 so he has 5 MF left
    Squad and leader...is double time used? Are they considered moving together?
    Then it would be 6 MF so 6-3 = 3 MF left.

    Now Assault move says: "Vehicles using AM can spend up to one-half of their MF (round fractions up) and still fire eligible weapons.

    So that would be 5 MV now and they could spent halve rounded up so 3 MF.

    Now currently that uis not possible in the digital version (see my bug reports)

    The squad and leader would have 3 MF left so halved and rounded up that 2 MF so they could still use 2 MF after unloading but thats not possible in the digital version currently.

    I also found this rule in the rulebook, not sure if this is implemented yet:
    "Vehicles can use AM to load or unload
    passengers, which takes the place of
    the vehicle’s movement, and then fire."
     
    #14 Wiggum, Jun 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
  15. Barthheart

    Barthheart Moderator
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    If a vehicle unloads it has used up half its MV. If it switches to AM then it now has 0 MV not half of half.

    Yes, the leader and squad move together at DT so have 3 MV when AM. - EDIT this is not correct see my post 3 below this one.
     
    #15 Barthheart, Jun 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
  16. Wiggum

    Wiggum Member

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    Can you tell me where in the rules it says that concerning the Vehicles?

    The rules say:
    Vehicles using AM
    can spend up to one-half of their MF
    (round fractions up
    ) and still fire eligible
    weapons.

    So if their MF is 5 after unloading they will have 3 MF left to move when switching to Assault Move and still can fire.
    What do i miss here?
     
  17. Barthheart

    Barthheart Moderator
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    Version 5 rules, 15.2 Assault Movement & Vehicles
    last bullet point states :

    Vehicles can use AM to load or unload
    passengers, which takes the place of
    the vehicle’s movement, and then fire.

    So AM vehicles that unload passengers cannot move but can fire.
     
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  18. Barthheart

    Barthheart Moderator
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    Also I just found this.
    Version 5 rules, 16.4 Mounting & Dismounting
    6th bullet point states:

    Assault Move-capable units (6.1) can
    use AM to unload and subsequently
    fire, but doing so prohibits them from
    leaving the hex into which they disembarked
    until the following turn.

    So you can AM off of a vehicle but you must remain in the hex but you can fire.
     
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  19. Wiggum

    Wiggum Member

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    So tanks can switch to Assault Move to unload but then all they can do this turn is fire, they cant leave the hex in which they unloaded the Squads because no MF left?
    And Squads and SMC can switch to Assault Move while unloading but then again all they can do is fire, they cant leave the hex in which they unloaded because no MF left?
     
  20. Stéphane Tanguay

    Stéphane Tanguay Moderator
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    Yes, vehicle can AM and unload, using the movement part to unload, which leave it only with the fire part of AM so it can fire with appropriate penalty but can't move any further.

    Yes, vMMCs and SMCs can AM and unload, using the movement part to unload, which leave them only with the fire part of AM so they can fire with appropriate penalty but can't move any further.
     
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