Moving shaken units closer to enemies

Discussion in 'LnLT Rule Questions & Clarifications' started by TerryB, Oct 13, 2018.

  1. TerryB

    TerryB Member

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    Hi guys,

    A quick question regarding 5.1 /6.0 which states [A unit may move..] "Unless such a move would bring a Shaken unit closer to an enemy unit in their LOS..."

    When is this LOS condition applied?

    In my current game the following situation has arisen. I want to move the shaken German unit in I7 to the builidng in H8.

    - The move from I7 to H8 does not take the unit closer to the British unit in J2 (the range is still the same).
    - The move would take the shaken unit closer to the units in E1/F2.

    However, when my unit activates to move, the British units are not in my LOS, because my unit is both behind the building (blocking terrain) and also in a Wheat field (blocking terrain). So if the LOS restriction applies BEFORE I move (as I've interpreted the rule) then the move is OK.

    But, if the LOS restriction applies after activation, then this move would be illegal, because I moved closer to enemy units now in my LOS, AFTER moving.

    Is there an official ruling on this? This is a situation where you have a banged up squad trying to get into cover, they don't know there's more Brits on the other side of the house...

    Thanks in advace.

    Terry

    upload_2018-10-13_10-34-36.png
     
    #1 TerryB, Oct 13, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
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  2. Qwirz

    Qwirz Member

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    You CAN enter the building because at the moment you leave your hex you CAN'T see those Brits. Once you are in H8 you see them. NOW you know they are there. So if you hypothetically would have more movement points you should consider them for further moves.
     
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  3. TerryB

    TerryB Member

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    Thanks, Qwirz!
     
  4. Stéphane Tanguay

    Stéphane Tanguay Moderator
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    I play like Qwirz presented it but Jeff, the LNLT rules guru, does not agree. In his view, the LOS condition applies to both moments (BEFORE you move or AFTER you move).
     
  5. Barthheart

    Barthheart Moderator
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    That's the way I've always played, you have be out of LoS for the entire move.
     
  6. Captain Darling

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    As we play it we would not allow the move H8 as the unit is getting closer to a known enemy unit that can see it (at that time), just one of those ‘makes sense’ things, for us shaken units would not attempt to get closer to the enemy...:)
     
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  7. TerryB

    TerryB Member

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    Thanks for the answers, guys. I asked this because in the other thread from 2015 I didn't see an actual example of ther ebeing blocking terrain between the shaken unit and the enemy.

    Can of worms officially opened. :nailbiting:
     
  8. Qwirz

    Qwirz Member

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    NRBH but I think that units are Known if they have LOS to each other. Quite sure this was defined in an older thread. No omniscence due to eagle flight view. So you cam move towards a unit you are not aware of (I.e. You have not LOS to) buy at the moment you DO have LOS you cannot shorten the range anymore.......
    That's the way I always played and it looks fine....to me!:)
     
  9. Stéphane Tanguay

    Stéphane Tanguay Moderator
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    Qwirz, I think it is not a matter of eagle view but more that your unit does not see the enemy when it start it's move but, at some point, it would and thus would not complete it,s movement.
     
  10. TerryB

    TerryB Member

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    This is the logical way I would play it too. But, after reading the older thread I had some doubts. In that thread it does seem that the "LOS" part of the rule is superfluous if shaken units would never attempt to get closer to the enemy.
     
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  11. Captain Darling

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    TerryB has got it! ‘Shaken units would never attempt to get closer to the enemy’...I think the rule needs to be reworded forget the line of sight units ‘should not move closer to known enemy units’...
    Cheers!
     
  12. Stéphane Tanguay

    Stéphane Tanguay Moderator
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    Actually the LOS part is checked for every hex entered so you might be able to "close" the distance in the first hex because it is out of LOS but could not enter the second one, because it is in LOS

    You can think of it as if shaken units don't want to end their move on the frontline.

    Myself, I house rule that (see my first post in the thread) to give a little more leeway to shaken units but it is not the official ruling.
     
  13. Captain Darling

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    Agreed!

    :happy:
     
  14. Qwirz

    Qwirz Member

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    That was what I meant.....;)
     
  15. Stéphane Tanguay

    Stéphane Tanguay Moderator
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    Frow now on, the LOS condition applies only to the hex you are leaving, not to the hex you are entering, but the LOS must be check for every hex you move out of.
     
  16. Barthheart

    Barthheart Moderator
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    Sorry Stéphane but that makes no sense. If you are in LOS of an enemy you can’t move? If you are out of LOS you can move into a hex that is in LOS? That all sounds backwards to me.
     
  17. Stéphane Tanguay

    Stéphane Tanguay Moderator
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    Let say there is a shaken unit with a GO leader adjacent to a building that is blocking their LOS to an enemy unit. At the moment the leader and the shaken unit decide to DT move out of their hex, with no enemy units in their LOS, they feel confident enough to move into the adjacent building. As they set into the building and prepare to move out again eventually, they notice a enemy unit that is now in its LOS and decide not move any closer.

    Does that make more sense?
     
  18. Barthheart

    Barthheart Moderator
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    Yes that makes sense... somehow your previous post doesn’t mean that ... to me anyway....
    I know what you want to say... but even I can’t think of how to word that.... beer might be interfering....
     
  19. Stéphane Tanguay

    Stéphane Tanguay Moderator
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    Would that be better wording?

    Shaken units cannot advance (including changing a level in a Building) toward an enemy unit in their Line of Sight as they leave a hex to move. This check is made hex per hex along movement. As soon as they get into LOS of en enemy unit, they can't move any closer.

    And that lone beer might be interfering here too :)
     

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